New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[Chikatsu]

at this point, I would bet money that their selections were largely recent things/what they thought looked cute on Viera. Hrothgar were purely an afterthought and it was a case of "well, we already have the files open, stretch them out to fit the Hrothgar skull and toggle off the ears", followed by patting themselves on the back for their magnanimous inclusion. Viera got a 2nd round of additional haircuts this patch I believe, and they were probably looking to port those next until our less than warm reception of what we were given.

[Denji]

It really does - at the very least - feel like a last thought kind of arrangement. Like "oh, we almost forgot. .. eh. just slap 'em on."

[Kelev]

Hang on. Do you know who would be a perfect person to ask why the haircuts we got were selected?

Our community team representative!

On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

Zhexos -

Do you happen to know, offhand, why the hairstyles we got were the ones added? I think we can guess on like 1 or 2 of them, but the rest of them are kind of a mystery.

I’ve gotten a couple saying in other threads “Hey, at least you’ve gotten Square to reply to you.” but I haven’t heard from you since. Is there any kind of attention you pay to this thread since we can’t get any kind of commitment out of anyone, even to answer some pretty basic questions.

[Midareyukki]

It really does - at the very least - feel like a last thought kind of arrangement. Like "oh, we almost forgot. .. eh. just slap 'em on."

Considering the way they just showed the stuff without much care in the world for whether it looked presentable, I wouldn't doubt that they forgot.

Because let's face it, it's not just that they don't fit the race (some people are into that). It's not just that they're hairstyles locked away from beginner experienced that you need to play to unlock. It's also the fact that they just had zero thought into what to put in.

Actual hairstyles that would fit the race better? Stuff that's already in-game from the start for Hyur to use? Instead we just get the same thing given to Viera.

Even if Yoshida said "oh we don't want to make original content for Hrothgar anymore", then
a) that's bull, since that's exactly what they did for Bozja NPCs, look no further than the guy who gives us our Relic Weapons
b) yeah, we've been asking you to reconsider your stance, mr. Producer. You reconsidered your stance on Male Viera, Viera IN GENERAL, and Blue Mage (as controversial as that choice may have been).

Why is this such a hard "no" for you?

Why is Hrothgar such a big problem and so casually brushed aside with snide remarks and disdain when we tell you "No, that excuse does not fly past us, modders have shown that you can implement stuff if you put in the work"? We didn't even ask for all that much, just "treat us like other races" and "please make quality content for us as well, fix our stuff". Hell, you made it clear you could make hairstyles for us without any shortcomings with Bozjan NPCs so why is this suddenly such a taboo?

Ok yeah we get it, our faces intimidate you, we're too bestial for your dev team's liking. Then why add it in the first place if your intention wasn't to make Limited Races? Because if that's the stance you're now taking toward us, at least come forward and admit to it.

And then you want us to say that you do indeed listen to us? Because to me it feels maybe SE does listen. It's just that it's selective hearing. Even on something that's a little bit more major than adding in Adventurer Profiles or Umbrellas, their selective hearing just randomly triggers.

[Skyborne]

I just noticed the 'whining' and 'toxic players' tags that were posted by the same person and I had to laugh. The duality of man! I'm feeling generous, so here's your attention.

[Midareyukki]

I just noticed the 'whining' and 'toxic players' tags that were posted by the same person and I had to laugh. The duality of man! I'm feeling generous, so here's your attention.

Random person accuses thread of being toxic and whiny, so they whine in the most toxic and passive-aggressive way possible.

You know how those white knights are, they're whiter than Norvrandt. Oh well. You're too generous Skyborne. You gave some poor child the only attention they'll ever have in life.

God forbid people are upset, want accountability and give feedback, "you're moving your lips, that's whinging".

[Vahlnir]

Hang on. Do you know who would be a perfect person to ask why the haircuts we got were selected?

Our community team representative!



Zhexos -

Do you happen to know, offhand, why the hairstyles we got were the ones added? I think we can guess on like 1 or 2 of them, but the rest of them are kind of a mystery.

I’ve gotten a couple saying in other threads “Hey, at least you’ve gotten Square to reply to you.” but I haven’t heard from you since. Is there any kind of attention you pay to this thread since we can’t get any kind of commitment out of anyone, even to answer some pretty basic questions.

They probably fled the scene after that post. lol Honestly, it accomplished nothing other than proving our point even further.

[Kelev]

What I can’t seem to understand is every time we get a line out of Square that touts their “pretty unorthodox methods” or “how much they had to bend the rules” to make Hrothgar happen and look bestial they’re not really fibbing, but they’re kind of glossing over a key point.

When, in programming you make the kind of design choice we’re talking about here - for example, and I’ve mentioned this before - the Roegadyn have a “muscle” slider but the more bestial Hrothgar do not - that’s because the Hrothgar use that slider to determine the length of our tails.

In programming, the term for this in a lot of places for this is a “kludge” - it’s German for “clever” - and it’s not so much a hack or duct tape. It’s just a retrofit of something over something else - like using the muscle slider which you can argue Hrothgar don’t need for something they do, which is a tail of a certain length.

And that sounds fine and good, but if at some point that kludge isn’t standardized, and codified, and documented, that “unorthodox design standard” winds up breaking something else when you try to modify it.

Or it presents a unique design problem when you’ve used something like, say, bones for our hair as bones for our jaws and never come back and fixed it properly.

So when Square says “we used some pretty unorthodox design standards” that’s great. Appreciate it. Really do. But unfortunately now you’ve made a mess for yourself since you haven’t spent the time after that fixing things and making them standard.

And then when your players wind up saying “you promised us X” and you say “Well, when I say I do something I do it” and it comes out looking awful and you say “If the community really hates this so much we can do haircuts that look nice but they’re gonna take a lot longer. I’m really torn ”

Are you? Did you not see this coming? When you were asking for “more time to research making Hrothgar haircuts easier” what, exactly were you doing?

[Allegor]

Hang on. Do you know who would be a perfect person to ask why the haircuts we got were selected?

Our community team representative!



Zhexos -

Do you happen to know, offhand, why the hairstyles we got were the ones added? I think we can guess on like 1 or 2 of them, but the rest of them are kind of a mystery.

I’ve gotten a couple saying in other threads “Hey, at least you’ve gotten Square to reply to you.” but I haven’t heard from you since. Is there any kind of attention you pay to this thread since we can’t get any kind of commitment out of anyone, even to answer some pretty basic questions.

It's a little obvious. Despite Viera now having both genders, Hroths are still treated as their counterpart, the 'third wheel' so to speak. Anything Viera gets, likely Hroths get, even if it obviously doesn't fit them, aesthetically or... literally.

[Midareyukki]

snip

I know this is normal to do and that other games do it as well. Probably doesn't seem to be much of a problem in general.

But if we're complaining so hard about 1.0 spaghetti code and the issues it brings, why isn't this sort of practice better regulated and thought of from the start? Why can't they sort out functions to add as to not break something else in the future? If they want us to congratulate them for McGyvering their way through this, then why not have the same design philosophy as ARR and early Stormblood and not make systems that are going to break their systems and functionality? Why not add stuff that might break something only after you've fixed your stuff? Or you know, work to fix it altogether over the course of the three years it's been so that when you decide to implement new stuff and polish other races it's a lot easier for you?

Just food for thought really. Don't know how bad this could really be. All I know is that the way they have their system right now is indeed very shoddy and all over the place. But it's still workable. And it isn't at all the rocket science they make it out to be.