The story is great, but it blatantly gets in the way of the rest of the game

[Faafetai]

Numerous posts have been made by various users over various threads carefully stating as to why this just wouldn't work, yet they're constantly treated in a dismissive manner by people like the OP or yourself as "being rude" "mean" etc., when all they are saying is lit "not everything will appeal to everyone, and that's fine. If what you enjoy doesn't outweigh what you dislike, it's time to move on rather than think the game should be changed to cater to you." There is nothing "rude", "mean", etc., about that. Granted some could phrase it better, but good grief...

Yes telling someone just go play something else is rude. It is a snarky thing said constantly if you don't like some parts of the story go play something else. If you don't like any changes made to any of the classes. Go play something else. If you experience a bug in the game. Don't report it, just go play something else. Easy. People enjoy the game and wish to play it because they enjoy the story and find it a very fun game. It is also the only mmo that actually has people on it that also fits many needs people have and gives you a ton of things you can do to not get burnt out on the game itself. I enjoy it. But how is a dev suppose to know I don't like the new warrior aoe, or sam aoe changes. I guess just in game support, but I figured forums would be another way.

If people wanted to play something else and were not enjoying the game they would. Why do they need to be told if someone is not saying it to be edgy or to attempt to get rid of people in THEIR game. That is how it sounds to me. I may be off base, but that is literally how it sounds. People who don't love EVERYTHING about the game do not belong here.

Creating an overarching narrative for players to experience in your story based game is in no way "disrespectful to the story." You honestly lost me, here. People seem to ignore all the times seemingly "trivial" elements are brought up again in later story beats, with various levels of importance. Haukke Manor was yet another piece in the trail leading to the Ascians and their meddling, the people that were major players from 2.0 all the way to EW. At that point in time you couldn't just have it be a side quest as it was yet another important link in the story.

Haukke Manor was a bad example, but you do see the Ascians being evil multiple times already. I personally would have liked more of the story and have it as a side quest involving the history of the women who turned into a succubus, and her servants maybe before everything all tying in to haukke and haukke hard. Sure of course they were involved but it could have easily just been someone else who was involved with the corruption of void magic. It does bring intrigue but we kind of already know in the story from the level 15 quest before leaving the starter city that Ascians were the bad guys. You see them in toto rok. The whole quest seems a bit like filler instead of being super important for the story.

What I mean about disrespecting their own story is the devs have no faith in the story so they force it on every player. Sure there is a jump potion so this leaves me to believe they only keep it this way for money. Not because they care about the story, but they can sell you a solution why would they ever split it. That would be financial suicide. If they had faith in their own stories they would not sell jump potions because no one would ever want to buy them.

Further, saying no one is asking the game to cater to them is dishonest and ignoring what's been posted. OP, and others in the past, have straight up stated that the story should be made irrelevant (non-mandatory) because they want to get to the "real game"... whatever they think that may be, when the bulk of the game is the story. It's a theme park MMO yes, so there's lots of other things to do, but the story is such a fundamental aspect of it that if you striped it from it completely it would become something else entirely and wouldn't have nearly the same pull... nor would it have grown as much as it has, regardless of what certain people tell themselves.

I don't want to be catered too. I think it would be a good idea to uncouple the story from dungeons. It is fine if they can't do this. I personally am not asking for them too. I did my time. I played the game and went through the story. I don't care what they do with it. I just would have preferred not being forced to do anything and enjoy the game in the order I wanted to enjoy it, but that is just how it is in this one. I don't have to like it. I sucked it up and took many breaks when going through 101 plus quests just to finally get to ishgard. Many people quit before then and that is why quests were taken out. Square sees when people quit and realized it was a big deal. They are making changes that are very good already. Toto rok rework especially.

I wish I had skipped everything and new game plus'd the whole thing so I could properly absorb everything instead of it all being shoved down my throat along with millions of tutorial messages on top of learning my class on top of manditory class quests so now I am reading multiple plotlines multiple different stories at the same time. If I don't do the class quests I will not have a skill I need for the next dungeon.

Maybe it is just because I hate being forced to do anything when I am paying for a product. I would rather not someone dictate what I do with the product or how I use it/interact with it.

[Mirhd]

We never got Terranigma here in the US so I was never able to get my hands on that. But The Legend of Dragoon, Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete, and Xenogears have special places of honor in my collection.

Nice. Good choices.

Yes telling someone just go play something else is rude. It is a snarky thing said constantly if you don't like some parts of the story go play something else. If you don't like any changes made to any of the classes. Go play something else. If you experience a bug in the game. Don't report it, just go play something else. Easy. People enjoy the game and wish to play it because they enjoy the story and find it a very fun game. It is also the only mmo that actually has people on it that also fits many needs people have and gives you a ton of things you can do to not get burnt out on the game itself. I enjoy it. But how is a dev suppose to know I don't like the new warrior aoe, or sam aoe changes. I guess just in game support, but I figured forums would be another way.

If people wanted to play something else and were not enjoying the game they would. Why do they need to be told if someone is not saying it to be edgy or to attempt to get rid of people in THEIR game. That is how it sounds to me. I may be off base, but that is literally how it sounds. People who don't love EVERYTHING about the game do not belong here.

We must be reading completely different posts then, because reality is at odds with your view. Are there weirdly obsessed people? Of course there are, but they're a small group, relatively speaking, they exist in every fandom, not just here, and it's disingenuous to imply otherwise. If you think that the majority of people want to drive those who don't love everything about the game away, then that is a personal failing on your part. Many people, such as myself, have expressed our own problems with the game on these forums multiple times, so we clearly don't blindly support everything about it, not to mention more new players--->new players enjoy game--->more money--->game continues on for years to come. It's a win-win situation.

Further, I've also expressed my annoyance in the past regarding those who don't treat Sprouts decently, because I can't stand that sort of elitism. If what you were saying were true, I and others would be doing the exact opposite. I only take issue with those who come to a game that is heavily story based and insist it shouldn't be. That is lit "expecting the game to cater to you", and I don't know how you can argue otherwise in any sort of good faith.

Haukke Manor was a bad example, but you do see the Ascians being evil multiple times already. I personally would have liked more of the story and have it as a side quest involving the history of the women who turned into a succubus, and her servants maybe before everything all tying in to haukke and haukke hard. Sure of course they were involved but it could have easily just been someone else who was involved with the corruption of void magic. It does bring intrigue but we kind of already know in the story from the level 15 quest before leaving the starter city that Ascians were the bad guys. You see them in toto rok. The whole quest seems a bit like filler instead of being super important for the story.

Haukke Manor was meant to be another display of the Ascians' nefarious manipulations - the only reason that women ended up a murderous voidsent was because they sent her down that path. It was never meant to be a mustache-twirling, "I burned down an orphanage and drowned a sack of puppies, and now I'll blow up Ul'Dah, I'm so eeeevil" situation. If that's what you think it should have been for it to be "important", we'll just have to disagree.

What I mean about disrespecting their own story is the devs have no faith in the story so they force it on every player. Sure there is a jump potion so this leaves me to believe they only keep it this way for money. Not because they care about the story, but they can sell you a solution why would they ever split it. That would be financial suicide. If they had faith in their own stories they would not sell jump potions because no one would ever want to buy them.

I'm a little miffed that I need to repeat myself here, but the devs only put the story skip (very reluctantly) on the store because they know there would be some people who don't care about the story and just want to play with friends. I'm sure higher ups in SE also pushed for it because they want money, but the FFXIV devs genuinely are proud of what they made and want people to experience it as intended. Why wouldn't they? A few issues I have with story beats here and there aside, they've made something good, and they should be proud of it. It isn't some tinfoil hat conspiracy as you claim, and I say that as someone who most certainly isn't an optimist - realist, more like.

If the devs "disrespected their story" as you say, they would just toss it all, focus less on it, make it so you can do it in any disjointed order, not make call backs to older content ("hey, remember when such and such happened?"), etc. So, in other words... the exact opposite of your assertions.

I don't want to be catered too. I think it would be a good idea to uncouple the story from dungeons. It is fine if they can't do this. I personally am not asking for them too. I did my time. I played the game and went through the story. I don't care what they do with it. I just would have preferred not being forced to do anything and enjoy the game in the order I wanted to enjoy it, but that is just how it is in this one. I don't have to like it. I sucked it up and took many breaks when going through 101 plus quests just to finally get to ishgard. Many people quit before then and that is why quests were taken out. Square sees when people quit and realized it was a big deal. They are making changes that are very good already. Toto rok rework especially.

I wish I had skipped everything and new game plus'd the whole thing so I could properly absorb everything instead of it all being shoved down my throat along with millions of tutorial messages on top of learning my class on top of manditory class quests so now I am reading multiple plotlines multiple different stories at the same time. If I don't do the class quests I will not have a skill I need for the next dungeon.

Maybe it is just because I hate being forced to do anything when I am paying for a product. I would rather not someone dictate what I do with the product or how I use it/interact with it.

I've already addressed the catering thing (again...) but here we go.

The problem is you went into the game with the wrong mindset as others like the OP have done, and saw the story as an obstacle (addressed this before too... but w/e) to be overcome, rather than a major part of the game. Your experience was soured from the get go, and as I've said before, there are players with your exact opposite result - they regretted skipping because they had no idea what was going on, why it mattered, thus had no investment in anything, and only realised what they had been missing upon doing New Game +.

If you still enjoy the game, good! I've said before and will scream it til the cows come home that I have no issue with people who find things they enjoy enough to stick around. None. However, when they start insisting that the game would be better by stripping what made the game endure and grow for years from it... that's when I take issue.

EDIT: It bears further mentioning that an investment in "seeing what happens next" in a story is more likely to retain players these days than an MMO with no/little/poor story, so... there's that. The fact the devs encourage players to take breaks as well to prevent burnout, and to come back later is a good thing, despite what others have argued in the past. Burnout jades players and makes them less likely to ever return, or they'll return at a much later date than they would otherwise.

[IdowhatIwant]

The problem is you went into the game with the wrong mindset as others like the OP have done, and saw the story as an obstacle (addressed this before too... but w/e) to be overcome, rather than a major part of the game.

Problem with this, is you shouldn't have to tell players, hey before you buy this make sure you are going in with the right mind set. If people quit because of issues with progressing through the story than it should be viewed something that is causing problems with players enjoyment.

you should probably study up on final fantasy there friendo, its a franchise that is very story rich and they will always prioritize it over everything else.

I have played every FF same in the series. I know what a FF game is. How ever these are also single player RPG games, some you can play with a second player during combat. You can't really compare a normal FF title to FFXIV as it is an MMO the only one you can compare to FFXIV is FFXI. Perhaps you should study up on game genres more.

[Mirhd]

Problem with this, is you shouldn't have to tell players, hey before you buy this make sure you are going in with the right mind set. If people quit because of issues with progressing through the story than it should be viewed something that is causing problems with players enjoyment.

They went in expecting it to be exactly (or mostly) like any other MMO that doesn't have a heavy story focus. If you can't see why that's an issue, I don't know what to tell you.

[IdowhatIwant]

They went in expecting it to be exactly (or mostly) like any other MMO that doesn't have a heavy story focus. If you can't see why that's an issue, I don't know what to tell you.

There are plenty of MMO's that have a heavy story focus that do not gate as much content behind story as FFXIV, and there are some that do. It's fairly shallow to not consider new players opinions about not wanting to do the long story if they don't want to, and I don't think they should have to pay to skip it either. There are also glaring issues with the story where you tend to out level the content at a very fast pace, which causes the content to become boring. Sure you can tell people well level another class, but not everyone wants to do that either. Is what would be better is something more like what WoW did in all honesty, where once you reach a certain level you can just move on to the next expansion, if you choose to. I don't think this would honestly hurt the game in anyway and it would only serve to improve new player experience as the two most common complaints about player retention in this game is 1. the long MSQ grind, and 2. lack of content. Well a third one would be housing, but I think most people that claim they quit because of housing weren't really doing much in the game to begin with. With new game + they would always also be able to go back an do the parts of the story they may have skipped if they choose to as well. I really can't think of a reason this sort of feature wouldn't exist in all honesty.

Also all the stuff about why didn't a friend tell you this. Not every one is going to purchase this game because a friend it playing it, and some may even purchase with a friend with no prior experience either.

Opinions of the story really don't matter either, the story being good or not doesn't change that it is still a large mountain to climb, with a little cave to explore every now and then so long as you saw the key along the way up the mountain.

[Amenara]

They went in expecting it to be exactly (or mostly) like any other MMO that doesn't have a heavy story focus. If you can't see why that's an issue, I don't know what to tell you.

So they went in with a reasonable expectation that it would be a similar to every other MMO out there experience? I think you might be missing the issue.

I don't necessarily think the story should be decoupled from everything but you sure as hell shouldn't have to slog through the 80 post ARR MSQ to unlock the first expansion and 3 jobs. SE needs to clean up the ARR questing experience more than removing 13% of the quests, it needs to be 30%+. There are a lot of drawn out plot points that can be simplified, there are a ton of quests that just don't need to exist anymore. I understand in the ARR times they needed to pad out the MSQ, especially in 2.1-2.3 since the things that happen can be condensed to a couple of quests, and nowadays it should be. In my opinion you should legitimately be able to watch the cutscenes and get from completion of 2.0 to start of HW in an afternoon.

I think the same can be said of every expansions x.1-x.5 patch cycle as well. It is an interesting story to tell, but at this point, it doesn't need to take months to complete.

[YukikoKurosawa]

So they went in with a reasonable expectation that it would be a similar to every other MMO out there experience? I think you might be missing the issue.

Maybe they should do actual research on a game before they play it to know if it's for them or not rather than just assuming it will be like other games they've played?

[IdowhatIwant]

Maybe they should do actual research on a game before they play it to know if it's for them or not rather than just assuming it will be like other games they've played?

There are some people that avoid trailers and stuff to avoid spoilers in movies and video games. So some people do not do this for that reason.

I am really shocked at how people that have already completed the MSQ don't want it to change to improve the new player experience. I will be honest if you replay this games MSQ frequently you are a masochist, cause it honestly is not that fun in any expansion. It is just simply a long story, which players can get with out actually playing through in the game already.

The best way to engage new players and keep new players is give them different options of leveling or experiencing the game. There shouldn't honestly be any reason why a player can't just buy the game and start dungeon grinding up to the current expansion. There shouldn't be any reason why some one can't just go spam deep dungeon or explore side content to level up to the current expansion. It is fine to have the story gate keep the current content, but it shouldn't gate keep old content, specially now that you have the unending codex on top of the unending journey inside the inn, and new game +. It is just gatekeeping to think players should have to be forced to go through that slog unless they want to.

What end game?

This is another problem as to why player retention goes down after a month or two of the expansion launch.

[Amenara]

Maybe they should do actual research on a game before they play it to know if it's for them or not rather than just assuming it will be like other games they've played?

How much research are people supposed to do before buying a game? Are they supposed to read reviews? Watch gameplay trailers? Listen to randos on youtube tell them its the best game ever made?

If you are the kind of person that looks at maybe a few sources to get the general gist of the game and go ahead and try it out. Depending on where you look you may or may not get the feeling that you are gated from doing a large amount of content by the games story. You may or may not get the knowledge that you will be spending hundreds of hours playing the game before you will make it to the end of the "leveling experience" and be able to do the current level content.

It is pretty harsh to just say they should do "research" on a game before they play it, especially when researching a game is different to every single person. The MSQ is bloated and has a lot that needs to be cut to make the leveling experience for new players better as well as reduce/remove the gates the MSQ puts on a lot of content in the game.

[Skivvy]

They went in expecting it to be exactly (or mostly) like any other MMO that doesn't have a heavy story focus. If you can't see why that's an issue, I don't know what to tell you.

XI, SE's only other MMO title, also has a substantial amount of story. However, they don't force you to complete 100% of the old MSQ just to get into the latest content.

Yes, XI's expansions do tend to have a more self-contained plotline vs XIV's overarching style, but I still don't find that a great excuse to force everyone down the 100% completion route. At the very least, they could let people choose which expansion to play through at any given time. They could also decouple some of the raids/dungeons to make them easier to access.