[Spoiler] Alliance Raid: Deryk...

[Cleretic]

Since this thread seems to be becoming the de facto 'Alliance Raid Disussion Thread', something's just occurred to me about them:

In real life pantheistic societies, when a new big-deal thing is discovered or invented, it was usually tacked on to the domains of existing gods. (Sometimes they made new gods, but that was rarer.) That's how you get those Greek and Roman gods with a bunch of weird unconnected domains, because the gods don't actually exist as singular, static beings; you can just say this new form of metalworking is now Hephaestus' domain, Hephaestus isn't gonna get mad at you for giving him more work to do.

But the Twelve are interesting because they actually are singular, relatively static deities. And yet in the raids so far we've already got Byregot, a god of industry wielding a blacksmith's hammer, and Nald'thal, a god of commerce who uses merchants' scales and has the symbol of an ancient form of currency. And those are just basic features of their being, there isn't a Byregot or Nald'thal without those things.

Doesn't it stand to reason, then, that Byregot and Nald'thal could not have come into being in a world that didn't already have industry, blacksmith's hammers, commerce, merchants' scales, and that specific form of currency? And that doesn't just preclude societies that hadn't invented them yet, but also potentially the late-day Ancients themselves, who used creation magic and so wouldn't have had a concept of a blacksmith's hammer, or possibly currencies.

[sidurgu-12]

Since this thread seems to be becoming the de facto 'Alliance Raid Disussion Thread', something's just occurred to me about them:

In real life pantheistic societies, when a new big-deal thing is discovered or invented, it was usually tacked on to the domains of existing gods. (Sometimes they made new gods, but that was rarer.) That's how you get those Greek and Roman gods with a bunch of weird unconnected domains, because the gods don't actually exist as singular, static beings; you can just say this new form of metalworking is now Hephaestus' domain, Hephaestus isn't gonna get mad at you for giving him more work to do.

But the Twelve are interesting because they actually are singular, relatively static deities. And yet in the raids so far we've already got Byregot, a god of industry wielding a blacksmith's hammer, and Nald'thal, a god of commerce who uses merchants' scales and has the symbol of an ancient form of currency. And those are just basic features of their being, there isn't a Byregot or Nald'thal without those things.

Doesn't it stand to reason, then, that Byregot and Nald'thal could not have come into being in a world that didn't already have industry, blacksmith's hammers, commerce, merchants' scales, and that specific form of currency? And that doesn't just preclude societies that hadn't invented them yet, but also potentially the late-day Ancients themselves, who used creation magic and so wouldn't have had a concept of a blacksmith's hammer, or possibly currencies.

two possible answers i can think of is:

1) they came to be because of the sundering.
or
2) they represent the spirit behind each of their domains and their forms match the current understanding of it.

[Iscah]

I've done a lot of disagreeing in these replies...

Deryk is certainly something suspicious but I think people are reading too much onto certain details that didn't seem significant to me.

There's also the whole thing about the small animals being the 12's forms when they don't fully reveal themselves and it looks like his may be a fish which you can see in Omphalos swimming.

Thalia seems far more likely to be represented by the owlet.

Plus the hair piece and the way they keep making sure we notice it

There isn't anything special about the hair piece (it's the male version of the Obsolete healer hairpin from Paradigm's Breach) and I don't think they've made a special deal of it. It does stick out a little oddly but that's a fault of the gear design itself.

The baby Opo-opo is either Althyk or Nophica's familiar. My bet is on Nophica if she is the final boss in the 6.3 raid. Opo-opo are located in the North Shroud for reference near Hyrstmill.

I wouldn't read too much into that. The exact names ones might be there, but it's a pretty common enemy type and the names don't always correspond to significance.

My guess on the final alter Krile mentions is probably the gateway to the Seven Hells and my bet is that the Twelve guard that realm in order to make sure people who die return to the atherial sea (Underworld) instead of going to the Seven Hells.

Given that the other portals lead to the six elemental heavens, the likely inference is that the central gate leads to the seventh. The question is what that might be.

My apologies if this is already answered somewhere - but this shot was extremely suspicious. Are those symbols meaningful in any way?

I'm not even sure what "symbols" you're pointing to. The tiny decorations on the wristbands? The belt? It's all standard player equipment (the wristbands are Ronkan Bracelets) and I don't feel like they're trying to make a feature on any symbols here.

I hate the shoebill nowadays. It was a funny thing at the start of ShB but it overstayed the joke and the Ancient-related speculation means that I can't wait for the replacement joke minion.

I thought the ambystoma was the replacement? Much cuter and a lot easier to pick up as a player minion, too.

[Shookbeast]

Thanks for the info on the wristbands. Those were indeed what I was referring to. The shot in question does very weirdly dwell on them… I’ll have to do a little more digging.

Edit:
Is it normal for characters on the Source to wear armor from the First? Maybe that’s the clue in itself - and not the symbols…

[Iscah]

Is it normal for characters on the Source to wear armor from the First? Maybe that’s the clue in itself - and not the symbols…

It's fairly common for the character designers to ignore the origins of the gear piece if it suits the look they're after. For an example running the other way, the tank quest guy in the First is wearing Alliance gear from the Ghimlyt Dark, and Matoya's Relict drops copies of Voeburtite gear from Dohn Mheg. Though if I recall correctly, the Voeburtite characters we saw in flashbacks were wearing Dravanian and Void Ark sets... and so on and back and forth.

Basically, clothes are clothes and the average Eorzean doesn't seem limited to the shops and sources we have for gameplay purposes.

[Shookbeast]

It's fairly common for the character designers to ignore the origins of the gear piece if it suits the look they're after. For an example running the other way, the tank quest guy in the First is wearing Alliance gear from the Ghimlyt Dark, and Matoya's Relict drops copies of Voeburtite gear from Dohn Mheg. Though if I recall correctly, the Voeburtite characters we saw in flashbacks were wearing Dravanian and Void Ark sets... and so on and back and forth.

Basically, clothes are clothes and the average Eorzean doesn't seem limited to the shops and sources we have for gameplay purposes.

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

[Cleretic]

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

Probably his hands, and the fact he's a little anxious. This is just before he leaves because he's not as comfortable in a crowd as the rest of us.

[Iscah]

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

It just looks like an arty shot to me. A little more tense than just the usual talking heads.

Probably his hands, and the fact he's a little anxious. This is just before he leaves because he's not as comfortable in a crowd as the rest of us.

Probably this, yes.

[sidurgu-12]

Fair enough and thanks. It’s an odd shot though. The camera wants us to notice something. Just not sure what then if not his clothing?

i think theyre meant to be similar to the fist clenching scenes. as in, he doesn't feel comfortable surrounded by allies so he clenches his hands.