[Spoiler] Alliance Raid: Deryk...

[Cleretic]

Trying to apply how alliance raid stories generally go, I think that while Deryk's someone of special interest and Oschon is definitely a figure of interest (if for no other reason than 'the structure as we know it says he's the final boss'), there's room enough to swerve from the natural assumption. So I think we're going to be led down the path of 'Deryk is Oschon', but ultimately not reach that as we expect. I like 'the opo-opo is Oschon' for that reason, there's enough room for them to swerve without it being too much of one.

Normal raids have the space to go several tiers of 'completely bananas' between the opener and the conclusion to the point where the end doesn't resemble the beginning, but that's mostly because they have room to progress the plot between a given patch's raids. You couldn't pull off Eden in the alliance raids, because Eden needed that space between raids to make the full sprint it needed to. For that reason, I have to assume we already have all the pieces, it's just that we'll be putting them together in an unexpected way. Compare with the Nier raids (and ignore anyone who's about to tell us the Nier raids are Bad Actually); broadly speaking all of the notes that would be important were already present in the Copied Factory and surrounding quests, we just didn't yet know what forms they'd be important in by the end.

[Vyrerus]

I think it will bother me if they put Althyk in the next batch of the 24 mans. He's supposed to be the head figure of the entire pantheon. The patriarch who took Nymeia as his wife, and then had two hot daughters. Or something like that.

Course, I suppose part of finding out the truth might be that Oschon created the whorl or something or other. /shrug

[Cleretic]

Yeah, the estimates say that Althyk is the chump-grade first boss of the next tier, with Thaliak as the end boss. Then the third raid goes from Nymeia to Oschon.

I don't like it, but I expect it, for three reasons.
1. The two members of the Twelve I'm interested in are Byregot and Althyk, so it feels like my luck that they'd both be the chump-tier first bosses.
2. Althyk's main 'thing' is time; they've already done big and beloved time-themed fights with Alexander, so Althyk wouldn't be able to bring a lot new to the table in terms of endboss spectacle.
3. Thaliak would mean that Sharlayan gets a boss and fight theme, much like how Ul'dah did (apparently Nal'thal's theme might sample some of 1.0 Ul'Dah's theme). And Endwalker hasn't passed up a chance to big up Sharlayan yet, why would they stop now?

[KageTokage]

Deryk mentioning that he named the phantom realm the Omphalos using an "ancient tongue" when the actual Ancients were the only ones known to use Greek naming schemes was another thing that made me really suspicious of him.

If he's not outright one of the Twelve then I think he at least knows much more then he's letting on.

[YianKutku]

Deryk mentioning that he named the phantom realm the Omphalos using an "ancient tongue" when the actual Ancients were the only ones known to use Greek naming schemes was another thing that made me really suspicious of him.

If he's not outright one of the Twelve then I think he at least knows much more then he's letting on.

Technically Sharlayan uses Greek naming schemes too. However, I have no idea what the differences are between "Classical Greek" (or "Ancient Greek"?) and "Modern Greek".

But yeah, either Deryk or his Opo-opo is one of the Twelve. Chances are very high, but after the silly fake-outs of the Ivalice raids, I would not say it's guaranteed.

[Alleluia]

I’m leaning more towards the opo-opo being a god, with Deryk being a servant or a favored mortal. Maybe Oschon just liked the guy due to being kindred spirits, and is now hanging around him, leading him to discoveries he knows the boy would enjoy. And it also happens to serve whatever goal the 12 have.

Laurel leaves were bestowed upon “champions” of the gods/state in Ancient Greece. And Deryk does make a point of being like “they have MINIONS?!” In the raid. Like it’s a big deal to him for some reason. Maybe it’s foreshadowing that he’s a minion, himself, tho maybe unknowingly.

[Raikai]

Deryk is Althyk and the opo-opo is Oschon. The surveyor and the wanderer, both roles that work hand in hand. Deryk is way too unfazed by everything, and there are many subtle hints that he is in league with the 4 gods we met so far.

If that's the case... maybe we don't fight both of them, or we fight them both in the same fight at the last tier. This means 1 (potentially 2) fight spots are free to host whatever is a threat to the Phantom Realm and the whole point of the raid's plot.

My personal theory is that the Twelve's origins are that they are Venat's followers back in the day, that helped her with her Sundering plan. She became Hydaelyn and her followers became the Twelve to act as more direct guides to mankind as deities.

Then, who this threat might be? Maybe one of the remaining sundered Ascians that somehow managed to seize the power, and is continuing to grow in strength and that being the reason why the Twelve have been silent for so long? Endwalker is the conclusion of Hydaelyn x Zodiark saga, but there's still time to resolve Ascian content in the .X patches - which is exactly what the 8-man raid series is doing.

[sidurgu-12]

this might be an unpopular opinion but im really hoping the twelve are exactly who they say they are.

as for deryk, what if he was raised there and was sent out into the world with oschon when he reached adulthood? that might explain why he's a bit aloof.

[Alleluia]

Byregot name dropping Hydaelyn in his villain monologue does make me think they do have some connection to her. Maybe he wasn’t entirely lying about motive and this is another case of testing humanity as it is. Maybe their power was tied to hers’ and they’re due to fade away soon, or at least their power is (like auspices and the god forms are their take on aramitama buildup?), so they’re having one last hurrah to assure themselves that their children will be ok. And they don’t want to tell us.

Also, can we assume now that, if there is a hydaelyn connection here, that the existence of the phantom realm hub above Silvertear might be why Middy stepped in 15 years ago? His pact with her may have covered protecting this realm for some reason.

[XiXiQ]

If you wander about omphalos, it is populated by a lot of solo roaming minions. This makes me think it might evenually become (or lead to) the island sanctuary.