I would like to encourage everyone to keep providing the feedback YoshiP asked for.

[Semirhage]

Cool story, now stop derailing our thread or get out.

I only came in because DPS were floating their dismissive fantasies that the reason healers aren't listened to has anything to do with how they present it, and not the clear catering the DPS role gets.

"Get out": yep, I agree
"Anyway maybe you should shut up and watch how actual change is made": yeah Imma stop you right there, don't give me that nonsense about healer complaints being "badly worded" or whatever.

Actually wait, it -is- topical. Because the DPS have been ducking into the healer forums dismissively blabbering on about HeALErS should hEaL oNLY for years now, so hey. I'm only here when people make up BS about healers. Stop it. It's not our tone. It's favoritism. We have the receipts.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I only came in because DPS were floating their dismissive fantasies that the reason healers aren't listened to has anything to do with how they present it, and not the clear catering the DPS role gets.

"Get out": yep, I agree
"Anyway maybe you should shut up and watch how actual change is made": yeah Imma stop you right there, don't give me that nonsense about healer complaints being "badly worded" or whatever.

Actually wait, it -is- topical. Because the DPS have been ducking into the healer forums dismissively blabbering on about HeALErS should hEaL oNLY for years now, so hey. I'm only here when people make up BS about healers. Stop it. It's not our tone. It's favoritism. We have the receipts.

What’s funny about this thread is if i’m not mistaken OP stated we could talk about all jobs here, so it’s not technically off topic But yes i agree. Wouldn’t be that big of an issue if someone was trying to flaunt about and act like the reason dps get their way is because they construct their criticisms better than healers ever will, when you can literally step into the healer mega thread and see people have been explicitly specific

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Been reading through a lot of posts on this thread and noticed a lot of SAM main has claimed this as a SAM thread. I believe the OP has stated we all can talk about our jobs here not just SAM. Just kinda put that out there first.

As a long-time SMN main who was thinking about trying sam I hate the changes to SAM. I really hope the dev walks this one back and at least gives sam's kaiten back. Also hope if anyone on the team sees this that maybe they talk about the state of smn a little more. The rework has isolated a lot of us long-time mains and we have been left wondering what the next step for smn is since the rework does feel rushed and unfinished. So if anyone on the dev team sees this post I pled you to give us more info on where the devs mind state is for smn and if you have plans to take the feedback you get to make the job feel more compete and rewarding to play. It's pretty bad when the PVP version of a job is more fun than the PvE version of the job I think...

[Roxus]

Abbreviated

Don't generalize. The same person you quoted wasn't even the one who said that. And I don't agree with what the other person said. No. We are not "the DPS". I don't even know what you are talking about because I don't have business in the healer forums. And I especially wouldn't go there to do the very same thing I dislike from here. I am very close with several healer only friends, and I have healed a decent amount of endgame myself. I understand why people are upset.

Abbreviated

Yes, everyone is free to talk about their concerns with their jobs in this thread. I mean I agree with what you said. I just wish you would actually post something of concern regarding healers here rather than saying you have been neglected for years. I get it and I wasn't blind to that, I've been around the game for a long time now. If it's any solace, the Astrologians are not particularly happy that they are next on the chopping block on 6.2 and there has been activity there. Same for Dragoon.

Abbreviated

Yes, everyone should be able to share their concerns here. To be fair, it only happened because there have been some very rude comments in several threads, so I understand. I think people will not say the same thing if everyone just understood its better to stay together on this issue.

As for SMN, two of my friends have outright refused to touch the job due to the changes. While flashy, it is no longer interesting to them and I've been told the engagement is close to none besides the animations. I'd also like to hear their reasoning in detail for job design, especially for the ones that have suffered the recent changes.

[DreadfullyAwful]

I would like to high some of the core points from the JP playerbase that I think are critically important

- Many speculate it was for newer players
- There are many posting for the first time because they don't want to be viewed as accepting these changes
- Does the developer even play Samurai?
- Allusions to job favoritism

I believe these are extremely important in highlighting the disconnect between the developers and the game. It was discovered in a interview with YoshiP for 6.1 that they were doing a lot of the healer testing in-house with developer who had very amateur experience. That and the fact that action bloat seems to elude BLM (the game directors main job) is starting to foster resentment amongst the community in regards to job favouritism.

I don't think it is unfair to speculate that due to FFXIV recently receiving a large influx of players over the last two expansions, that the job design mindset has changed to simplifying jobs so to not lose new players and therefore this new revenue stream. And it is this ignorance that similarly happened in other MMOs that began the fostering of negative feelings towards the development team and whether they were fit for the role, and if they truly have the player's best interests at heart (see Holinka and Ghostcrawler). Ofcourse, this will result in a loss of players.

This is a critical point in time where we should challenge the dev team, in the hopes that they reevaluate their priorities when it comes to their game design philosophy.

[Manofpassion]

My heart goes out to the astro and dragoons. Knowing your job will get fucked in the next patch cannot be a good feeling.

I personally would like to single out astro in particular for improvements. I only really played it in shb, but I liked how divination was a raid buff you actually had to work for, and now it's just given to you on a silver platter. Divination just doesn't feel unique anymore, now it's another generic raid buff on a 2 minutes cooldown.

Lady and lord of crowns also just feels shit. It doesn't feel impactful, and its just a button i press so my fingers have something to do. I would prefer the shb iteration of Lord and lady instead. I am probably the most casual astro player in existence, but I feel like the shb version of astro was a lot more fun. The effects are cool and flashy, I just wish it had something to back it up.

[Lavender_Listhea]

I'm not understanding why 5 stacks are given with 15 seconds. If the intention is for alleviating low ping players, why give Delirium 3 stacks with 15 seconds and not blood weapon 5 stacks with 25 seconds? Delirium is far more ping friendly giving 5 seconds per stack while blood weapon is 3 seconds per stack giving a very little window.

I know people might say get good, but the issue is that the purpose is to alleviate problems with those who have low ping, not "getting good".

[Lavender_Listhea]

So the changes were addressing 2 things. Fluctuating dps and decreasing bloat. I'll tackle both reasons in separate pieces.

Fluctuating dps: May I point out Black Mage? They have the most fluctuation. I know it's part of their rotation but I could apply the same reason for SAM for not changing it. Would you be willing to streamline Black Mage further since they still have fluctuating dps?

Decreasing bloat: WHM Afflatus Rapture has a big hit on first enemies and 50% decrease on all the rest in range of the attack. You can combine Shoha & shoha 2 to behave the same. You can combine Hissatsu Guren and Senei to behave the same. You could combine Hissatsu Shinten and Kyuten to perform the same. 6 down to 3 freeing up 3 slots instead of just 1.

[DreadfullyAwful]

Decreasing bloat: WHM Afflatus Rapture has a big hit on first enemies and 50% decrease on all the rest in range of the attack. You can combine Shoha & shoha 2 to behave the same. You can combine Hissatsu Guren and Senei to behave the same. You could combine Hissatsu Shinten and Kyuten to perform the same. 6 down to 3 freeing up 3 slots instead of just 1.

The fact there were so many better ways to address 'action bloat' alludes to that this was a false excuse to the actually reason for the change - simplification of assumed complexity.

[CKNovel]

I'm not understanding why 5 stacks are given with 15 seconds. If the intention is for alleviating low ping players, why give Delirium 3 stacks with 15 seconds and not blood weapon 5 stacks with 25 seconds? Delirium is far more ping friendly giving 5 seconds per stack while blood weapon is 3 seconds per stack giving a very little window.

I know people might say get good, but the issue is that the purpose is to alleviate problems with those who have low ping, not "getting good".

Well... You can easily fit 5 GCDs within 11 seconds on a 2.50 GCD.
If you are lagging like crazy, it might go up to 13~14s.

These changes exist for 200-300 ping player.
If your GCDs take more than 3 seconds to land or you are above 300 ping, you have a serious internet problem.
It becomes your problem, no matter how long Blood Weapon lasts, your massive ping will make you lose much more GCDs.

I agree on merging AoEs and Single target that shares the same cooldown.
These basically do the same thing and are not engaging choices.