The Ninja Changes Still Suck, and The Job Needs a Nerf

[aloneatsea]

Yep. Title.


I'm not sure if it's common for mains to call out their job for being too strong, but Ninja's absurd right now. There's really no reason for it to be as strong as it is.


Mug is thematically worthless for Ninja as a party buff, and it deviates from Trick being a core, identifying ability for the job. Trick has always been our iconic party buff; messing with this is a loss all around, for both people who play Ninja and people who play with Ninjas.


Ninja numbers have been ticking up because the job is absurdly overtuned right now -- not because the changes were a net positive. I promise you, if you nerfed Ninja to the point where it was a mid-tier melee job, the number of people playing it would plummet.


Please, for the love of god, fix my job so I can have fun in this game again. 6.05 Ninja was just fine.

[Kolsykol]

Tbh neither Mug nor Trick Attack thematically make sense to me as a target damage buff, I think they should rename Trick Attack to '' Armor Crush '' and give it a new animation ( or keep the same I guess ) and make it the target damage buff.
And then rename current Armor Crush to Trick Attack or something instead.

Like why is Armor Crush extending a buff that makes you attack faster and why is Trick Attack the dmg thing lol?
Or even bring back Sneak Attack maybe as the dmg buff even that would make more sense.

I dunno why this would make you not play NIN tho or why this would make you '' not have fun in the game '', it's very overly dramatic and you don't even have NIN leveled up on your character.
If it's an alt account then well, I wonder why so many people are supposedly posting from alt accounts.
I don't think that we need to be so overly dramatic tho, NIN is great atm some thematical issues isn't ruining the Job.

Mug as party dmg isn't as fun imo tho but it's still effectively the same gameplay-wise.
I think it gets into the larger issue of the dreaded 2 min burst window.

I kinda miss the days tbh of utility, I mean I guess I kinda don't want TP back lol.
But I still kinda miss it on some level and enmity being a bit harder to manage, I liked that Tanks for example had a separate combo finisher for Enmity and that NIN had tools to help.

[butchersblock]

Here you go again stalking someone's lodestone to try to discredit their views. I already explained to you how raiders will often run at least 2 characters for split clears, but you're somehow doing this shit again in a different post. The poster clearly shows a detailed understanding of the job through their posts, and you're arguing about pedantics with armor crush and trick attack not having cool... ability names of all things.

[butchersblock]

Yep. Title.


I'm not sure if it's common for mains to call out their job for being too strong, but Ninja's absurd right now. There's really no reason for it to be as strong as it is.


Mug is thematically worthless for Ninja as a party buff, and it deviates from Trick being a core, identifying ability for the job. Trick has always been our iconic party buff; messing with this is a loss all around, for both people who play Ninja and people who play with Ninjas.


Ninja numbers have been ticking up because the job is absurdly overtuned right now -- not because the changes were a net positive. I promise you, if you nerfed Ninja to the point where it was a mid-tier melee job, the number of people playing it would plummet.


Please, for the love of god, fix my job so I can have fun in this game again. 6.05 Ninja was just fine.

It's very disappointing to me how people fail to understand how this issue affects other jobs too. Though, if I were to guess - it was by design and they will not deviate from this. I can kind of see 60/90/120 raid buffs being awkward for DSR because of the fight's design, but it's just not a good compromise.

[Kolsykol]

Here you go again stalking someone's lodestone to try to discredit their views. I already explained to you how raiders will often run at least 2 characters for split clears, but you're somehow doing this shit again in a different post. The poster clearly shows a detailed understanding of the job through their posts, and you're arguing about pedantics with armor crush and trick attack not having cool... ability names of all things.

It literally says on their profile '' Ninja lvl 70 ''.

I wasn't discrediting their view if you actually read what I said which you clearly didn't.
I was for the most part agreeing with it but I think it's also very overly dramatic to act like the game is basically ruined because of this.
The OP is also arguing about thematics and whether something is or isn't iconic or not, so yes it's relevant.

I dunno how their post showcases a '' detailed understanding of their Job '' either, it's basically just '' I don't like Mug, Trick Attack was more fun ''.
That's just a personal opinion and one I agree with but I still think it was flawed.
I am aware that there are other gameplay related issues one could bring up with buff timings but the OP didn't do that.

I think this is just a wider issue than just NIN too like I said this has more to do with this obsession with the two minute window.
There are also other criticism I'd throw at Mug in that it's the least interesting party wide damage buff.
I guess it could be said that it enables Bunshin ( in the opener at least ) but imo Brotherhood and Arcane Circle are way more interesting imo even if effectively the same as a damage buff because at least Arcane Circle leads into Plentiful Harvest and Brotherhood into machinegun Chakras.
50 Ninki is bleh and boring, at least 60's instead of 120 was a tad bit more interesting.

If you're gonna get mad about people noticing that you don't have something you're talking about leveled up then you can at least post on your actual character if it truly is an alt or you can avoid being overly dramatic.
I know that people can have more than one character but those characters will typically have stuff leveled up too instead of not having anything.

Edit: Also we had infamous MNK trolls leading up to SHB on this forum, including people admitting to not playing MNK but still arguing with MNK mains and wildly making claims.
It's not uncommon at all that people go on about things they don't play.

I don't think that the OP is a troll at all, but it's a bit weird to act like the sky is falling or whatever while posting on a character that don't have said Job even leveled up and it's also what those people did too.
But who the hell am I kidding, melodrama is apparently what this forum is for and then people wonder why the devs avoid the forum and feedback goes unheard...

[Equitable_Remedy]

The Ninja Changes Still Suck

While it's unpopular on this forum to like anything about FF14, I disagree.

NIN is still my favorite job in the game, and I'm having more fun with it now that I did in ShB.

• I think that splitting two-minute raid burst buff from the one-minute personal burst buff was a good idea and will make balancing both easier in the future. One of the things that I really like about NIN is the busy burst window followed by relative chill until the next burst, along with having one-minute burst phases.
• Admittedly, I don't understand why people are seemingly so bent out of shape about Mug and Trick attack. Is the arrangement of the letters really that big of a deal? You have a one-minute personal buff and a two-minute raid buff. You used to have a one minute raid buff. I find the former to be more interesting than the latter.
• Phantom Kamaitachi is one of my favorite buttons to press in its current iteration—that has a lot to do with liking the idea of using the clone to make an attack and the sweet animation. I also like (in moderation) buttons that turn into other buttons. I initially kind of hated this ability, but I realized that it felt awkward because I was mentally treating it like an oGCD. Once I wrapped my head around it being a GCD, it feels great.
• I had mixed feelings about the initial implementation of Raiju. I didn't love the animation lock, and I really didn't love doing 6 Raijus in a row. That being said, I kind of liked the idea of the combo and comboing weaponskills off ninjutsu. Now, I think that it's in a decent place—I like using the gap closer to chidori in after an AOE, but it probably doesn't justify a button. With it's sweet animation, good damage, and combo off of Raiton, Raiju is definitely a button that I like to hit.
• Huraijin is just a nice quality of life upgrade. Part of me feels like it isn't worth a whole button, but another part is happy that it's there whenever I have to recover from a death or something. (Give us this or armor crush at a much lower level, though.)
• The shorter duration of doton and that addition of Hollow Nozuchi makes AOE more fun in dungeons. Hollow Nozuchi adds a little AOE interaction with other parts of the kit, which is a nice touch.

Again, I'm just speaking for myself, but I'm loving the current iteration of NIN. Sorry, I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[butchersblock]

xyz

So, are your concerns over Kaiten just melodrama too? How is the removal of a core ability from one job that much more important, than the removal of a raid buff, the last of its kind, that affects every single player in the party?

"I don't think that the OP is a troll at all, but it's a bit weird to act like the sky is falling or whatever while posting on a character that don't have said Job even leveled up"
then check his post history? You can clearly tell from what their previous numerous post that they understand the job far more than you do.

[butchersblock]

While it's unpopular on this forum to like anything about FF14, I disagree.

NIN is still my favorite job in the game, and I'm having more fun with it now that I did in ShB.

• I think that splitting two-minute raid burst buff from the one-minute personal burst buff was a good idea and will make balancing both easier in the future. One of the things that I really like about NIN is the busy burst window followed by relative chill until the next burst, along with having one-minute burst phases.
• Admittedly, I don't understand why people are seemingly so bent out of shape about Mug and Trick attack. Is the arrangement of the letters really that big of a deal? You have a one-minute personal buff and a two-minute raid buff. You used to have a one minute raid buff. I find the former to be more interesting than the latter.
• Phantom Kamaitachi is one of my favorite buttons to press in its current iteration—that has a lot to do with liking the idea of using the clone to make an attack and the sweet animation. I also like (in moderation) buttons that turn into other buttons. I initially kind of hated this ability, but I realized that it felt awkward because I was mentally treating it like an oGCD. Once I wrapped my head around it being a GCD, it feels great.
• I had mixed feelings about the initial implementation of Raiju. I didn't love the animation lock, and I really didn't love doing 6 Raijus in a row. That being said, I kind of liked the idea of the combo and comboing weaponskills off ninjutsu. Now, I think that it's in a decent place—I like using the gap closer to chidori in after an AOE, but it probably doesn't justify a button. With it's sweet animation, good damage, and combo off of Raiton, Raiju is definitely a button that I like to hit.
• Huraijin is just a nice quality of life upgrade. Part of me feels like it isn't worth a whole button, but another part is happy that it's there whenever I have to recover from a death or something. (Give us this or armor crush at a much lower level, though.)
• The shorter duration of doton and that addition of Hollow Nozuchi makes AOE more fun in dungeons. Hollow Nozuchi adds a little AOE interaction with other parts of the kit, which is a nice touch.

Again, I'm just speaking for myself, but I'm loving the current iteration of NIN. Sorry, I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Woah dude, you're so special and quirky. Damn, this really shows how much of a mindless sheep everyone here with complaints is, how dare they not like the idea of jobs having almost nothing to do outside 2 minute windows! (even though Yoshida himself prior to Endwalker said everything being on a 2 min cd would be boring, giving us the impression that they wouldn't do that)

[Equitable_Remedy]

Woah dude, you're so special and quirky. Damn, this really shows how much of a mindless sheep everyone here with complaints is

I didn't say (or even imply) any of these things.

how dare they not like the idea of jobs having almost nothing to do outside 2 minute windows!

NIN literally has a one-minute burst window that happens outside of two-minute burst windows.

Further, ShB NIN was no different with respect to being less busy outside of burst windows—the OP was about "changes" to the job. In fact, I see it as a virtue of the job, having a different pacing than other melee—variety in playstyle between jobs is good.

Also, one of the complaints about EW NIN is that you can't fit every Bhavacakra in burst windows, but that also means that you have another button to press outside of burst windows (which I view as a benefit).

[butchersblock]

I didn't say (or even imply) any of these things.


NIN literally has a one-minute burst window that happens outside of two-minute burst windows.

Further, ShB NIN was no different with respect to being less busy outside of burst windows—the OP was about "changes" to the job. In fact, I see it as a virtue of the job, having a different pacing than other melee—variety in playstyle between jobs is good.

Also, one of the complaints about EW NIN is that you can't fit every Bhavacakra in burst windows, but that also means that you have another button to press outside of burst windows (which I view as a benefit).

You implied it with your continuous passive aggressive comments towards the influx of posters unhappy with the game's direction.

"NIN literally has a one-minute burst window that happens outside of two-minute burst windows." - Just how hard is it to grasp that not having a 1 minute window anymore makes it so there's nothing for Ninja's party members to play around? There is no longer any thought going into gameplay outside two minute windows, which only happens around 4 times per encounter.

About the bhavacakra thing - one of the fantasies of the job is is fitting every last bit of resource you have into your burst window, it's understandable why people wouldn't want to be forced to put the bhava outside trick. And no, it's not "another button to press outside of burst windows." You literally press it right before trick, that's not what people mean when they ask for things to do outside burst windows.