What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[PawPaw]

I think familiars/arcane constructs are generally distinguished from living things by the fact that while they can have minds, they don't possess any of the other traits typically required for something to be considered "alive" like a functioning biological anatomy (Meteion being mentioned as not being able to eat as requiring sustenance would've been a detriment to her purpose of traveling the stars), which is also one of the requisites for something to possess a soul in the first place.

It still raises an icky question of morality if those beings are still able to feel pain physically or emotionally, though...

Doesn't the star decide who/what is granted a soul in the end? Everything is an arcane entity until is is granted a soul then it can be considered "alive", no? I don't have my sources pulled up but that's what I remember off the top of my head.

[KageTokage]

It is mentioned by the Ancients that fresh creations are soulless but are eventually granted souls if their bodies are self-sustaining via the laws of nature as opposed to requiring aether infusions like those lightning sprites did.

The same principle seemed to apply to Alpha who eventually gains a soul and is able to be understood via the Echo by the end of Omega raids...which further makes me wonder if all the beings in Ultima Thule may end up the same way and thus have their civilizations truly revived.

[Nilroreo]

Her description. Notably missing: the fact that Zodiark restored the star, that he was the one shielding it and required for her plan to even work and was more than just the manifestation of some "ill-fated" (because of her) wish, the fact that she withheld information from her people, the fact that only a sliver of mankind met her "test"... No, it's just all about Her luv 4 Her childrunz...

Yeah there's a lot of sugarcoating going on with a bit of revisionist history sprinkled in here and there. It describes her as "She who has long kept Etheirys turning," but that was a best a joint effort between the two of them, not something that can be solely attributed to Hydaelyn as there wouldn't be an Etheirys worth saving without Zodiark to begin with. It refers to Zodiark as a "Manifestation of that ill-fated wish," conveniently disregarding the circumstances behind his existence as a band aid solution to a problem they couldn't reasonably be expected to fully comprehend on their own.

Though my favorite part was "However, she knew that from their imperfection-their suffering-would arise the strength to face deepest despair." Last I checked, it was the Warrior of light that carried humanity through the final days. Both we and Venat learned the truth behind the final days at the same time, but where she decides to withhold that information from her people, we go on to share it with ours, and as a result, an interesting development occurs. Sharlayan, a solitary nation primarily concerned with self preservation is shown the truth, and allows us the opportunity to repurpose their one and only chance to escape the planet come the worst case scenario into a vessel designed to send us to the edge of the universe. It was the truth that ultimately convinced a stubborn nation to give up on escape and allowed them to open their minds to new possibilities. Without the truth, Etheirys was done.

We can never know how much better or worse the ancients would've fared had they been as fortunate as us. But when considering why Zodiark exists as he does and the VERY specific purpose he serves, I wonder: had Venat actually shared the truth, would Zodiark have even needed to exist as we knew him?

[PawPaw]

I managed to get everything but the Role quests out of the way today.

I'll put my sleepy, slightly coherent ramblings under a cut for spoilers.

I was expecting the Void and Zenos' voidsent but I must admit not quite so soon. While that part may one day be interesting I found myself quite bored more often than not, with the post-Alliance raid quests making me shout at my monitor because of how long they dragged on. Several people here have mentioned how much they dislike G'raha and while I can't relate to disliking him, I definitely got a glimpse of your pain when they suggested I take Y'shtola along with. I shouted "NO!" at my monitor yet again (I did this a lot) horrified at the prospect of having to spend more than passing moments with her. You can probably guess that she is a distant last place for me in terms of Scion likeability so these quests have been an exercise in learning how not to roll my eyes so much that I give myself a headache. Some incredibly cheesy moments in writing, especially when Y'shtola tells all about how she traveled to the edge of reality and "heard, felt and thought". My poor head still hurts.

I found the Alliance raid to also be very boring, the fights were cool but there wasn't any interesting lore dropped and I remember feeling a bit angry when I zoned into the Seventh Heaven place and it was just discount Elpis. It did finalize my decision to drop Azeyma like a bad penny, though. All it took was one time of her calling us her "children" and I noped the fk out. Nald'Thal here I come, baby. The architecture and the Elpis-ness of it makes me feel as though they are going to try to connect this to the Ancients somehow and I wish they wouldn't. Just leave them alone, you've done enough damage to their story.

In closing, opening a voidgate seems like an extremely bad idea considering the presence of rampaging monsters in the world being a thing wasn't all that long ago. But Y'shtola must know what she's doing, right? After all the Matoya music plays now whenever she's thinking really hard so I'm clearly supposed to believe she's just as wise and trustworthy. I like Vrtra though, so I'm willing to help him out.

I'll try to be more insightful once I've woken up.

[OhNooo]

I skipped every single cutscene because I'm no longer interested in the story.

Unlocked the alliance raid and spammed it around 5 or 6 times. Loved the raid! It gave me StB vibes which is a good thing. My favorite was the second boss. Looking forward to the other 2 raids. Just glad to be done with all the Neir stuff. We'll see if the 3rd raid finally tops Orbonne for me.

[EmpyreanHelios]

Picture

Omg, where is that picture from? Vegnat and Harmes are gone!

[Droxybrobotnik]

What jars me about Meteion is that her motivation does not make sense. Remember, her power is to absorb emotions, not just negative emotions but all of them, meaning that for every world she visited, not only did she see the despair at their ultimate end, but also the hope that enabled the civilizations to endure, the joy in their camaraderie and friendship, the shared exaltation of overcoming odds, all the reasons why the Scions fought against her, so she should have immediately understood their point of view and what they felt, not acted like it has no meaning. It's forcing a negative point of view for the sake of creating a villain, while not being coherent with plain logic, not to mention that it just makes her seem incredibly angsty and immature. You'd think having access to the endless sea of emotions in the hearts of living things would make you mature a lot, but no.

[KageTokage]

What jars me about Meteion is that her motivation does not make sense. Remember, her power is to absorb emotions, not just negative emotions but all of them, meaning that for every world she visited, not only did she see the despair at their ultimate end, but also the hope that enabled the civilizations to endure, the joy in their camaraderie and friendship, the shared exaltation of overcoming odds, all the reasons why the Scions fought against her, so she should have immediately understood their point of view and what they felt, not acted like it has no meaning. It's forcing a negative point of view for the sake of creating a villain, while not being coherent with plain logic, not to mention that it just makes her seem incredibly angsty and immature. You'd think having access to the endless sea of emotions in the hearts of living things would make you mature a lot, but no.

I think the implication that despair was the dominant feeling to the point that it was drowning out what little positivity remained.

There was a small part of her collective that still wanted to cling to hope which is represented by the blue Meteia that appear; one of which is gradually blackened as it guides you through the Dead Ends.

[Droxybrobotnik]

No that doesn't make sense, since you actually need a lot of positivity to push through the bad times. If the despair increases then so does the feelings of hope and determination, remember, all emotions, there is no implication anywhere that her powers to absorb every feeling was altered or in any respect dimmer, and given that she had the mental capacity of an entire collective she should very much have been able to understand why people do choose to go on. I'm not debating that she developed a fatalistic viewpoint, what I am debating is that the concepts that enables people to power through the worst of times seemed so alien and meaningless to her. Like the concept of personal battle and triumph just did not exist. It's just weird and whiny in the end, and hilariously self righteous. They ultimately put an immature kid in a position of power with nothing but a hopped up teen emo perspective, it doesn't make for a compelling villain

[Carin-Eri]

I skipped every single cutscene because I'm no longer interested in the story.

Why not? It could take an interesting turn and you wouldn't know.