If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

[HyoMinPark]

I'm curious about the OP's statement, as a relatively new player (started in Oct 2021). My experience with the whole thing, as I started on a Summoner, was that when I reached just around Shadowbringers or just a little bit before that, I started to really dislike Summoner. I started levelling other jobs because I found it overcomplicated. I don't have enough time to dedicate to the game to learn the somewhat complex mechanics of dungeons and raids AND a skills bar that's like the glossary of an encyclopedia. And then Endwalker dropped (I was still in Shadowbringers) and I hopped back on my Summoner and suddenly it's a love story. We got engaged and married before Endwalker and we're planning on our first kid. Anyways, jokes aside, while I can understand simplification is annoying for hardcore veterans an hardcore challenge-seekers, wouldn't it be ideal if the game offered a mix of complex jobs for the latter, and more simple ones for those who'd rather be a little more casual?

Honestly, I preferred when there was more of a gap between the skill floor and the skill ceiling. Nothing in this game that the more “casual” players will enjoy doing would require optimized performance. However, I liked having small things to optimize in my jobs that weren’t necessary to clear content, but still fun to do to push that little bit extra out of them. ShB brought about a lot of changes that were made to decrease the gap between those at the skill floor and those who pushed towards the skill ceiling. I remember BRD changes from SB to ShB specifically citing that they were made to close the gap because players that didn’t do “as much damage” as BRDs that were optimizing or min-maxing “might feel bad” for not doing as well. The reality of this is, is that those same players are very likely to be blissfully unaware of their performance, so what was there to “feel bad” about?

Having a gap between the floor and the ceiling isn’t a bad thing—but jobs seem to be changed consistently to cater to those at the floor while ignoring that those who reached for the ceiling found enjoyment in doing so. When the floor is on the ceiling, there’s little for the latter to reach for—and that’s when the complaints start.

[HisShadowX]

Except now more and more “casual majority” players (since you want to make this into an Us Versus Them argument) are getting fed up with jobs being changed and dumbed down. Even casual “non-hardcore minority” healers are complaining about how boring pressing one button is for 90 levels.

1.0 had nothing to do with being “hardcore” and everything to do with poor and unintuitive design.

Please use a new argument—this “casual majority” versus “hardcore minority” argument is tiresome and usually nothing more than a strawman.

No what you are hearing is Hardcore Players who think this game is to easy and claiming to be casual and posting here. Most of the people on the forums are not casuals. Thats why a survey wouldn't help since the majority who would answer it are a minority of the consumer base. Basically stats can show us what people are playing and not playing and it can show where the problem is. Warrior is not being played by the majority of tanks because of the cone. This might change now it has an circle instead of a cone.

FFXIV 1.0 even Yoshi P and staff said the staff who made FF11 felt because they made a profit before they can do the same thing all over again. FFXIV 1.0 was a failure because no casual wanted to play it and those playing it were the hardcore fanbase.

[Ranaku]

It's hilarious how people, without any evidence to back their claims up, just say "half of XYZ will leave cause of this and the game will die". Yeah no, it won't and you have no idea at all how people think about this. This thread here is like IRL politics, there is the minority who just screams everytime something happens no matter what and the overwhelming majority doesn't even care in the slightest.

So yeah, voicing your opinions is valid but for the love of Hydaelyn please stop trying to speak for others. Cause you have no clue how the silent majority feels about this clearly.

[HyoMinPark]

No what you are hearing is Hardcore Players who think this game is to easy and claiming to be casual and posting here. Most of the people on the forums are not casuals. Thats why a survey wouldn't help since the majority who would answer it are a minority of the consumer base. Basically stats can show us what people are playing and not playing and it can show where the problem is. Warrior is not being played by the majority of tanks because of the cone. This might change now it has an circle instead of a cone.

In my 5+ years of posting on here, I would hardly call those who post on here “hardcore minority” players. Or say that they hold any huge sway here. There are “casual majority” players coming here to complain about the jobs—from the healers to the changes that were made to NIN and SAM for 6.1. The latter is actually the first instance of all three communities—I guess I could also say 4 now because of OCE—being critical of something at the same time. It’s kind of staggering how even JP is like, “Who asked for these changes?”.

I highly doubt that WAR’s unpopularity came from Overpower being a cone, and likely more so from the job playing literally the exact same for 4+ years. Unless you can cite a source to prove me wrong, this seems like a huge reach.

If stats show the problems, then why are the healers still suffering from their boring gameplay. Unofficial censes put healers at the least played role in various level ranges—yet we’re lucky to get mana adjustments. Usually we’re just told to wait until this patch or that patch, and get a bandaid at best. Even with the small victories we got for 6.1, we had to be outraged over them for a very long time—and they still do not address the core issues with the role.

There are also other DPS jobs that have been suffering for years (MCH), yet barely anything is done to rectify the true problems with the class. It took them years to actually get MNK right—before EW, it was consistently the least played DPS, and consistently had a high amount of complaints surrounding its gameplay and changes made to it. The developers have a tendency to cling to certain designs, even if they are harmful to the job because the community plays them a lot differently than how the developers think we play them.

FFXIV 1.0 even Yoshi P and staff said the staff who made FF11 felt because they made a profit before they can do the same thing all over again. FFXIV 1.0 was a failure because no casual wanted to play it and those playing it were the hardcore fanbase.

That wasn’t why 1.0 failed, but you can keep telling yourself that.

[Raoabolic]

Listen everyone, no one is asking to turn every fight into an EX tier difficulty slog but at the same time no one wants to pay for a monthly sleeping aid in terms of combat. People are getting upset that the few reasons to move around or think about their job/class are getting removed for what sounds like an AI issue for their trusts and to lure in players that normally would not play an MMO or video game. Oh well, they kneecapped drk during StB so the only horse I had this race was turned into glue so it's all moot to me imo, lol.

[Gunn-e]

the problem is there is no complex option anymore. Summoner was the go to busy job for people who liked that and red mage was the less complicated one. now they just made summoner an easier bard essentially. Same with scholar turning into whm with a fairy in shadowbringers.

Okay, I was just wondering. I thought Black Mage and some others filled that role. I'm rather new to FF14 but vet to mmorpgs and I know the playerbase can be quick to anger, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for bad ones. Got another noob question, too. Isn't the difficulty increase of duties compensating for the simplification of skills and such? I mean, when I replay pre-SHB duties, it's plain to see they were much easier.

[BaconBits]

No what you are hearing is Hardcore Players who think this game is to easy and claiming to be casual and posting here. Most of the people on the forums are not casuals. Thats why a survey wouldn't help since the majority who would answer it are a minority of the consumer base. Basically stats can show us what people are playing and not playing and it can show where the problem is. Warrior is not being played by the majority of tanks because of the cone. This might change now it has an circle instead of a cone.

FFXIV 1.0 even Yoshi P and staff said the staff who made FF11 felt because they made a profit before they can do the same thing all over again. FFXIV 1.0 was a failure because no casual wanted to play it and those playing it were the hardcore fanbase.

This you?

[MiaShino]

This you?

Pffffffffffffffff! So am not the only one who also maybe perhaps occasionally searches the publically available repository of manually compiled spread sheet data. Sometimes I wish I did not.. morbid curiosity hurts..

Not one single fight or flight cast. Request a cat straaaaaiiiight into Confetti doors yummy.

It is always those who refuse to put effort who are the most surprised when the seven other people are sick of having back problems. The same talking heads with the same fricken bad takes one after the other. They are in every. single. one of these threads. Every single one.

No little Timmy if you were the majority no one would be allowed to drive cars anymore.

Seriously? You get fight or flight at level two. Maahhh.. How the heck do you not learn to use fight or flight? You cannot make a game for people like this because the medium was not designed for them. Sports are not for everyone and neither are video games and some are not suited to work with others in team environment.

Edit; Annnnnd no goring blade either. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[DPZ2]

This you?

This is a meme of some sort? Because a solid gray background doesn't say anything, and you're attempt at ?humor? falls flat to those of us who don't follow.

[Raoabolic]

This is a meme of some sort? Because a solid gray background doesn't say anything, and you're attempt at ?humor? falls flat to those of us who don't follow.

I think she called em' a grey. Pretty rude tbh, lol. /s