Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Colt47]

There's no way to fix healers in their current state, assuming that what is being implied involves making the healer role more interesting outside group content. The only option would be to turn healers into a role similar to the ranged dps, except the support skills recover HP and mitigate damage, where as the ranged dps mitigate and boost damage for the group. That model would allow for more complexity in the DPS rotation, but would also involve adjusting all the other jobs and likely would lead to some jobs becoming extremely self sufficient.

[IDontPetLalas]

There's no way to fix healers in their current state, assuming that what is being implied involves making the healer role more interesting outside group content. The only option would be to turn healers into a role similar to the ranged dps, except the support skills recover HP and mitigate damage, where as the ranged dps mitigate and boost damage for the group. That model would allow for more complexity in the DPS rotation, but would also involve adjusting all the other jobs and likely would lead to some jobs becoming extremely self sufficient.

First of all, healers already are ranged DPS.

Secondly, other games are able to make healers more engaging through a variety of means, including but not limited to additional DPS options.

Finally, your last line actually mad me laugh, coming from a "gladiator'. You must be joking, right? I guess you've never seen the amount of self-heals from warriors or paladins, right?

[Colt47]

First of all, healers already are ranged DPS.

Secondly, other games are able to make healers more engaging through a variety of means, including but not limited to additional DPS options.

Finally, your last line actually mad me laugh, coming from a "gladiator'. You must be joking, right? I guess you've never seen the amount of self-heals from warriors or paladins, right?

Good I'm glad we agree that making them interesting involves them getting a more complex dps rotation, but the part you seem to be oblivious to is that to make that work they would also have to cut abilities from healers, which would result in a complete redesign of multiple game systems. The reason healers are the way they are is intentional due to the fact they are built in the same fashion as most fire hose healers.

First, to even be able to have a more complex rotation, the job would have to give up healing spells for reasons on two fronts. First, if healers have more complex rotations, it has to be taken into account that healing will disrupt said rotation. Even if they did something like preventing a combo from being lost between attacks, if heals are needed it would necessitate swapping from concentrating on damage to concentrating on what type of healing cooldown to use.

Second, the fights would have to be adjusted to now account for all players in the raid doing meaningful damage, vs just the tanks and the dps. Right now all fights are balanced with healers not being a factor outside some low end baseline. Now if healers have more complex rotations, it would mean greater damage and the need to allow for healers to actually use the rotations.

[CrimsonGunner]

Good I'm glad we agree that making them interesting involves them getting a more complex dps rotation, but the part you seem to be oblivious to is that to make that work they would also have to cut abilities from healers, which would result in a complete redesign of multiple game systems. The reason healers are the way they are is intentional due to the fact they are built in the same fashion as most fire hose healers.

First, to even be able to have a more complex rotation, the job would have to give up healing spells for reasons on two fronts. First, if healers have more complex rotations, it has to be taken into account that healing will disrupt said rotation. Even if they did something like preventing a combo from being lost between attacks, if heals are needed it would necessitate swapping from concentrating on damage to concentrating on what type of healing cooldown to use.

Second, the fights would have to be adjusted to now account for all players in the raid doing meaningful damage, vs just the tanks and the dps. Right now all fights are balanced with healers not being a factor outside some low end baseline. Now if healers have more complex rotations, it would mean greater damage and the need to allow for healers to actually use the rotations.

1) healers damage is already accounted for in raids and ultimates, better gear reduces the amount of dps they have to contribute but at the same time better gear means dps deals more damage during your run, party avoid mechanics and lastly the better the gear the less damage everyone gets... .

2) swapping between damage to healing is the point of the job, its what healers sign up for. between healing and supporting (buffs,debuffs,dots, damage spells) is the definition of healer job in mmos.
but FF14 seems that healers are the 101 afk role for those who wish to play the damzel in distress Ingame while irl they are actually watching netflix and press one button at random to heal.

healers design really lacks in depths and mechanics and to actually improve them they will need to think of proper intricacies' between both parts of the healer kits to make them fun in general content.
again why is it a ROLE being simplified to death and not having varied options between all healers, why not have different jobs with different styles of play like dps currently have but instead all we got are all jobs being able to be played by a bot and having ingame bots with better kits then the actual healers.

[WaxSw]

Good I'm glad we agree that making them interesting involves them getting a more complex dps rotation, but the part you seem to be oblivious to is that to make that work they would also have to cut abilities from healers, which would result in a complete redesign of multiple game systems. The reason healers are the way they are is intentional due to the fact they are built in the same fashion as most fire hose healers.

Depends on the case every healer has some kind of button bloat, Whm for example could delete cure, lower the mp and cast time of cure 2 and since it already has less buttons it could easily fit at least 4 buttons more, Ast has a lot of button bloat in actions like undraw, Sage thanks to the eukrasian-like systems could add tons of new actions without increasing the buttons and for Sch it would need a rework to some of its systems but actions like protraction and physick could go away too without problem

First, to even be able to have a more complex rotation, the job would have to give up healing spells for reasons on two fronts. First, if healers have more complex rotations, it has to be taken into account that healing will disrupt said rotation. Even if they did something like preventing a combo from being lost between attacks, if heals are needed it would necessitate swapping from concentrating on damage to concentrating on what type of healing cooldown to use.

No one said combos, but for all that you mention there are already systems in the game, we already have attacks that do not break the combos, we already have the charge system that allows for ofensive actions to be delayed without losing potential uses and besides, healers right now heal using OGCDS which do not have to disturb any kind of dps rotation, even when gcd healing is necessary its barely a problem, current healers spend if asumed a 2.5s gcd 18-22 gcds per minute spamming dosis, some of those cast could be exchanged for other more interesting actions without impacting the healing at all

Second, the fights would have to be adjusted to now account for all players in the raid doing meaningful damage, vs just the tanks and the dps. Right now all fights are balanced with healers not being a factor outside some low end baseline. Now if healers have more complex rotations, it would mean greater damage and the need to allow for healers to actually use the rotations.

That would be unnecesary, they could simply lower the damage of the nuke and balance around that, healers could have the same dps they have right now but with more actions, instead of a 300 potency nuke give us a 200 potency one but several actions of 400-450 and the dps would be nearly the same, also healers right now spend over 50% of all the cast they do on they now, they are already have the chances to use those actions

[Kira_Yaeger]

Oh boy I can't wait to join the healers in their rage when they start simplifying the DPS down to doodoo levels of thought process! Already doing a good job with SMN and DRG, NIN and SAM are otw! Kaiten being removed is the first step to becoming a healer I love spamming shinten! I love the button bloat of 2 Shohas and 2 25 gauge spenders! I love Ogi being its own button! But Kaiten is the issue right? Soon we ALL become DRK! Blood weapon still isnt on charges btw and I really dont care if that comment ages badly because it should have been fixed at the start of the expansion in a hotfix. BLM doesnt have to worry about Enocian anymore! RDM gets 50 FREE gauge with the click of a button and doesnt need 15 sec countdown anymore! Oh boy we getting closer and closer to becoming healers. But that god for ultimates! Where I can truly test my button mashing skill because no matter what I know that I can clear all the ultimates in a year because they never go back and rebalance them for potency changes and food/pot changes! What a disgrace to say that you are in tuned with players but your actions speak differently. What a shame.

[Sebazy]

Good I'm glad we agree that making them interesting involves them getting a more complex dps rotation, but the part you seem to be oblivious to is that to make that work they would also have to cut abilities from healers, which would result in a complete redesign of multiple game systems. The reason healers are the way they are is intentional due to the fact they are built in the same fashion as most fire hose healers.

I fail to see a problem with this? Even WHM has hotkeys which could be considered bloat in the game's current state. Repose carries nearly zero value at this state, Shroud could easily be rolled into another system such as our Lilies. Even PI is getting perilously close to bloat status. SCH and AST? Fey Blessing is an instant chop for me and then of course there's AST. Why oh why do we need 5 hotkeys just for basic cards alone onto of a massively bloated kit as well? A complete rethink of healers has clearly been needed and overdue since Stormblood. I'll gladly take a full redesign on the assumption that SE get a competent healer team in to actually do it.

Second, the fights would have to be adjusted to now account for all players in the raid doing meaningful damage, vs just the tanks and the dps. Right now all fights are balanced with healers not being a factor outside some low end baseline. Now if healers have more complex rotations, it would mean greater damage and the need to allow for healers to actually use the rotations.

I don't really understand where this point comes from? Healer kit complexity has absolutely zero bearing on how much damage they actually do. Like literally none. It makes absolutely no difference if we have a 3 minute gigabrain rotation or our current situation of mashing the same button for 27 seconds straight. Our damage is defined by the potency SE deem to give us, not any combos or whatnot.

No one is asking for healers to do more damage. Endwalker was actually a pretty significant nerf for relative healer DPS contribution overall but you rarely see that mentioned because it's just not the problem here. The problem is when you have healers pressing the same single button over 150 times in a single sub 8 minute 'savage' fight.

It boggles my mind that people defend this. It's absolutely laughable to think that early endgame content from over 8 years ago was far more involving and intense to heal than anything we have now, savage included.

[IDontPetLalas]

Good I'm glad we agree that making them interesting involves them getting a more complex dps rotation, but the part you seem to be oblivious to is that to make that work they would also have to cut abilities from healers, which would result in a complete redesign of multiple game systems. The reason healers are the way they are is intentional due to the fact they are built in the same fashion as most fire hose healers.

First, to even be able to have a more complex rotation, the job would have to give up healing spells for reasons on two fronts. First, if healers have more complex rotations, it has to be taken into account that healing will disrupt said rotation. Even if they did something like preventing a combo from being lost between attacks, if heals are needed it would necessitate swapping from concentrating on damage to concentrating on what type of healing cooldown to use.

Second, the fights would have to be adjusted to now account for all players in the raid doing meaningful damage, vs just the tanks and the dps. Right now all fights are balanced with healers not being a factor outside some low end baseline. Now if healers have more complex rotations, it would mean greater damage and the need to allow for healers to actually use the rotations.

I would hardly be impressed with anyone stating that a more complex DPS rotation is totally outside the realm of possibility for healers considering that healers have only a dot and a single DPS skill right now.

If anyone is oblivious , i would say that you would be, i doubt that you heal much, given that all of the current healers (ok, WhM does have less) have a fair amount of OGCDs and weave their DPS skills . Not only that no healer needs to spend all of their time healing and - unless they are new to healing- they damage AND heal as a matter of course.

Finally, who asked for "complex" rotations/ Tanks don't have complex rotations but they're MILES ahead of healers. Why are you so afraid of healer jobs being touched? What healer hurt you?

[Vryn]

Look, it's never happening. Yoshi cares more about how good the grass looks than if your class is fun and your characters have more customisation. We all know if they made the classes slightly more complicated, those ultimates in question might start to look less tested by those developers. So much for the gamer god, Yoshi P. He is just as out of touch as the rest of them.

[HyoMinPark]

Look, it's never happening. Yoshi cares more about how good the grass looks than if your class is fun and your characters have more customisation. We all know if they made the classes slightly more complicated, those ultimates in question might start to look less tested by those developers. So much for the gamer god, Yoshi P. He is just as out of touch as the rest of them.

I mean there is evidence that suggests they address issues once people completely abandon a job. At least, if you’re a DPS. Healers may be used to being considered lesser than second-class citizens, but that doesn’t mean we’ll stay silent about it or stop pushing for change.