What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Brinne]

I didn’t really notice it much tbh. Like people say his whole waiting to fight us until after we beat meteion was development but…i feel like that’s just him not being dumb? Can’t fight us if Meteion destroys the planet. He just seemed the same ole wants to fight us to fight us cuz that’s all he likes. I didn’t see what it added to the story at all. He also caused the destruction of garlemald which had far more interesting people than him so To each their own though.

I guess also its just, what was the point of bringing him back? If it was gonna be the same ole thing. I wish i had the option to turn down his fight at the end of EW tbh lol. Why give him what he doesnt deserve.

Zenos learned the true meaning of friendship and went from a complete hedonist to figuring out the process of actually caring for someone in a more selfless way. \o/ Yes, he still wants to fight us, but his priority has shifted from wanting to fight us for his own sake to wanting to fight us for our sake - "You sought something in me. When I realized was it was, [I rushed over to Sharlayan to help you]." "This is the sole pleasure I know, and the sole pleasure I have to share." From demanding his contest for himself, to telling us he won't stop us if we want to walk away - but he'd like the chance, in his still-warped Zenos way, to provide us a space for a part of ourselves that's difficult to express with all the heroics that others expect for the sake of making us happy.

Thank you, bestie!!!!!

It's a very simple arc and comically clearly telegraphed by Alisaie yelling at him and him thinking about it all sad and alone later (lmao). But I think I found it all the more weirdly powerful and touching and poignant in its simplicity.

And for me - the fact that bringing him back was pointless, that he of all people got to live again and it was indeed totally and utterly arbitrary and pointless and meaningless, is part of why I think he's actually a perfect fit for EW's themes, which largely WAS "what to do when you realize it's all pointless?" There's no rhyme or reason to who gets to live and who gets to die, and Zenos is no exception to that, but Zenos was basically the center of the one possible answer to that meaningless element that EW provided that I was all on board with: you learn to care about other people.

I will not only reward him with his duel, I will reward him with a lifetime of hotblooded chocobo racing. THE POWER TO TRANSCEND [WITH SUPER SPRINT]!!!!!

[TShimmer]

Never really loved or hated Zenos, I found him an entertaining antagonist to just beat in SB, and wished that was the end for him, but I have to say, my opinion on him jumped at the end of EW, I was so dead and disconnected from the story at that point, that him just showing up and asking why I haven't defeated Meteion yet made me laugh, I was like "I know right?", also his fight was more fun than the trial for me, so he ended that experience on a higher note than I was expecting. Definitely a better motivation than all the Scions making fake sacrifices.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

I've(a Zenos fan) have always saw Zenos as the antithesis to the WoL. While the WoL fought for the betterment of all, Zenos fought for his own enjoyment. He was our Vegeta in all but name, we overcame him in Stormblood and every since then he was trying to get his win back.

Well, one of the reasons why i never found Zenos' BS entertaining was that his end goal was to kick the bucket like a chump. For me, at least in that regard, it's less antithetical and more two peas in a pod, problem being that the other guy just wants one last hurrah as he bites the dust.

Anyway, since he already got his, twice, can he just have the grace to accept it already?

[Sicno]

Since Stormblood I always felt that there was more to Zenos's story, that his desire for a fierce battle in order to "feel" something would have some more development. And once I saw him made his "return", jumping from body to body I was like "yeah, I knew it! his real backstory is coming later". Aaaaaaaaaaand... it never happened. Instead he became a mere power lvl monster and a poor attempt at Vegeta, and they had the gall to flaunt "yeah, we couldn't be bothered to make an actual backstory. Would it have changed anything?" And honestly if they couldn't deal with that by the end of this story, the "story to end all stories" I don't see how I could care about anything relating to that character if he ever comes back.

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

[Brinne]

I know a lot of people sort of get frustrated with that final battle because "Why are we giving Zenos what he wants?" (I'm not targeting you with this specifically or anything, Kizuya; it's an opinion I've seen a lot of thrown around by a lot of people, including friends.) But I think the point of it is that it isn't about "giving Zenos what he wants" anymore - it's about Zenos giving us something, if you look at what he's saying and how his attitude has changed from what it was before.

I've always been friendly to the idea that the WoL was partially my own crafted character, and partially their own character, so I don't have much issue - even though my WoL is a polite goody-two-shoes type - nodding along to that deep down, there is something to Zenos's evaluation and an appeal about offering that space where WoL can "relax" in a weird way and go all-out, joyous music blasting in the background, with zero stakes involved. It puts kind of a fun twist on my goody-two-shoes character, even.

And then we got to share an introspective moment where bestie asked, and seemed truly interested, in our perspective on life and if it was all worth it in the end after all. I'm not going to lie. I joke, but a part of me really would love to drag Zenos along on nonsense missions he doesn't give a crap about - but WoL cares about it for some incomprehensible reason, and he supports us as a friend, so whatever, sure - and hear his commentary about all of it than the vast majority of the Scions.

That being said, I do think his ending in EW was basically perfect for the character and I don't seriously resent leaving it at that, if that is truly the end. But I'll carry you in my heart forever, Zenos!!!

[aveyond-dreams]

Zenos was a mistake. An uninteresting villain with only a mildly intriguing physical appearance. Most of his on screen time was linked to teases that went nowhere. Please do not waste my time like that again.

[Thaciscokidd]

Zenos was a mistake. An uninteresting villain with only a mildly intriguing physical appearance. Most of his on screen time was linked to teases that went nowhere. Please do not waste my time like that again.

You know what I agree with your statement about his screen time. The last bit of the 5.x and trailer for Endwalker had me hoping for something that didn't pan out too. But I think that's the problem with Endwalkers villains. None of them got the proper time to shine.

Gaius was a hold over from 1.0 and expanded upon, Nidhogg and the Ishgardian Church where built in HW, Zenos and the Garlean occupation of both Doma and Ala Mhigo were built upon in Stormblood, Emet and Vauthry were build upon in Shadowbrigers. You knew who you were fighting and why.

Zodiark was the supposed big bad didn't even make it past the halfway point and was taken over by Fandango. And Meteion was a great concept but a little disappointing. It might have been just me but as soon as we met her on Elpis she gave me Abigail Williams(from Fate GO) vibes. Imagine if we had more time to actually quest with Meteion, to build on her character her innocence and subtle fall to darkness and despair like FGO did with Abigail in Fate, instead of falling into tropes and being kinda obvious that she would do a heel turn.

I know that they were trying to get us to this point to set out on a new adventure, but I really do feel that with a little bit more time Meteion might have been a better character overall.(Thought I highly doubt this will be the last time we see her.)

[Schwarzwind]

I had to laugh hard when Zenos was just as surprised as the WoL when Fandaniel suddenly hopped into the pit on the moon and snatched Zodiark away right under Zenos' nose, disrupting our duel. His comment when we were facing the Endsinger was also very funny. As well as his brooding when Alisaie called him out in Garlemald.

Zenos had so much growing to do and I think, at the end, his story was finally at a good point to end. He even gave us a chance to turn away from the final duel which he would never have done earlier.

As much as I liked that Zenos got a worthy end, I have to agree that it would not have hurt his plot had SE shown more of Zenos' backstory. But I am happy with what we got. Let him rest in peace now. Should SE decide to bring him or his avatar back, I hope they give them more time to develop and a deeper story in general.

[KageTokage]

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

I'm really hoping the Echo isn't going to just be a convenient plot device going into the future and that we get more context behind it; particularly if we're going to be learning deeper truths about the aetherial sea and Etheriys.

The aftermath of the second coming of the Final Days would be a logical time to give it some focus again as the starshowers in Thavnair, Corvos, and presumably other lands overseas would presumably have awakened more people to the Echo.

[Rulakir]

I never understood the appeal of Zenos in SB or ShB. I didn't hate him, but I wasn't given a reason to like him either. EW gave me that reason and I came to love his character. When I started seeing the Vegeta comparisons I felt even worse about his loss because I've always loved Vegeta. While I'm not keen on the WoL being Goku (though I suppose it fits), what a loss of a fantastic dynamic.

EW was basically the process of exiting every interesting character stage right and leaving us with... the Scions. *sigh* Hard to not be disappointed by that or even feel like that was a "happy" ending.

As for Metetion, I had no interest in spending further time with her. Quite honestly, I'm annoyed we didn't put her down and allowed her to go free at the end to... sing more?! Cause that's not how we ended up in this mess in the first place or anything. :P Sure, she's cute and arguably innocent, but that doesn't make her not dangerous or suddenly forgiven for trying to wipe out all life in the universe. I'm particularly annoyed that she got a second chance, better antagonists than her never did.