What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Caurcas]

Azura is the superior 'vague and speaks only in hints but is really looking out for your best interests' mommy goddess. Vivec was wrong to force his Muatra down her throat! The chad Daedric Prince with a champion who consumes ebony and glass vs. the virgin Primal whose champion has to be constantly given macguffins. brb time for my annual playthrough

That was written by Vivec so...take it with a grain of salt. Funnily enough Venat is a combination of Azura and Boethiah in many ways.

[Schwarzwind]

Even though the story had its low and strong points I liked the EW story and the conclusion to the mainplot overall. In my opinion they wrapped up loose plotpoints from previous expansions and ARR just fine. It was also nice to see all our old friends again, like the skypirates or Cid and Nero.

This does of course not mean that the story was perfect or that SE could not have done better. The story definitely had some pacing issues and I was not really much of a fan of some story parts on the moon or in Labyrinthos. They dragged on forever and felt boring at times.

I would have also liked to see more lasting effects of the Final Days. Thavnair does not really look like a zone that was hit with doomsday after the story ends. Garlemald also felt more like a sidestory, but I understand that it was necessary to wrap the empire plot up fast because time to do so was limited in EW. A Garlemald expansion would surely have been the better way to conclude the empire's story, but I am honest, I am rather burnt out with the empire and glad that it is over and that the empire can finally move on. Maybe we will see how that develops when the twins are helping the survivors of Garlemald in the future story.

On the other hand the story of EW had also its good points. I really appreciate how the story fleshed out our friendship with the scions and our old, new friends which made the story way more tragic and emotional for me. I knew of course that we would not really loose the scions when they sacrificed themselfes in Ultima Thule, but the scenes in which they gave their lifes so that we could move forward really hit me strongly. It was like our WoL was failing in the one singular thing that was constant throughout the game and in EW especially: the need to save those that we truly care for.

Since we players know SE's history of bringing back dead characters I feel like this story part only really brings out emotions in the player when you RP your WoL and not just follow the story like a disconnected reader. Therefore I can understand the critique that the sacrifices were kind of pointless because the scions would live either way. But to me that story part was awesome. Poor WoL! He is always going through so much and yet stays strong, I love it.

I also really enjoyed how the story played out in the end with the Endsinger. Meteion and Hermes as tragic villains were great and refreshing. Their story was just so sad and I really did not see it coming that Fandaniel is Amon and Hermes. Loved that plottwist!

That Zodiark was not the real big bad is something I am really glad for, because it made the story far more interesting to me than had SE gone the way with Zenos consuming Zodiark which would have been just boring. It was also fine that Zodiark was dealt with early on in the story because to me the story with the Ancients was far more interesting. I liked that they spend more time on that.

I also loved that Venat had her flaws and was morally rather grey. I spend days reflecting on Venat's moral code and her motives. To me she is a hero because thanks to her the world has a future it would not have without her doings. This does not mean that she is perfect or that I excuse or forgive her way of ensuring that future. Neither does she as she herself admits during the conversation with her in the aetheric sea. And that is something I really appreciate because the story does not paint her as that flawless beeing that is always in the right, like so many other games do with their gods. It felt fitting that she had to sacrifice what she really loved as a punishment for her ways and that she does not get to reincarnate. Venat was just as tragic as Hermes and Emet-Selch. Good at heart but flawed. I love all of them, but maybe I just have a thing for tragic characters and storys

The last story dungeon hit home really hard for me as well due to the reallife parallels. It is by far my favourite dungeon in the whole game. I also liked how well done the expansion was cinematically overall and I just love the EW soundtrack. I could listen to Flow and Footfalls all day.

Even though the expansion has its flaws and could have done better at some points, I am happy with what we got and am looking forward to the WoL's new adventures! Hopefully we may meet our old, new friends one day again (which might not happen, but my WoL can hope).

I also think that the story of EW achieved what it was trying to do, namely to get people thinking not just in black and white, as this thread and others in the lore forum really prove. It is really great to see how the players reflect on the story and its characters. Let us just not forget that every opinion is viable because everyone has different tastes.

[Rulakir]

As much as I hated Hermes, he was the antagonist after all and, depending on your POV, the ultimate villain of the universe despite the writer(s) wanting me to feel bad for him. He served his role.

The same can't be said for Venat who is at the very least depicted as the savior of Etheirys despite acting in ways no different than Hermes (they're just Ancients being Ancients!) and arguably worse. There was no challenge issued to the shards, for example, they were always just disposable. She also historically has no care of people's souls having consumed those of her followers to become Hydaelyn, condemning the sundered to losing theirs to the Final Days, and then burning through her own. The Ascians weren't even that bad.

Speaking of suffering souls in Zodiark, was I the only one that felt as though Yoshi-P had never thought for a second about the repercussions of having a world's amount of Unsundered souls entering the Aetherial Sea and being reborn? What was his answer? That they might be a bit "cooler" but otherwise no different from regular people? Really? Such a lame response.

Unless there's some aetheric limitation in place due to the sundering it makes no sense that they wouldn't be reborn as full Ancients.

The fact that they don't think about these sorts of things reminds me so much of the many issues I had with Steven Universe at the end, in fact, I realized the other day that the WoL is basically Steven while Azem is Rose/Pink. That won't mean anything to anyone who hasn't seen the show, but if you have maybe you see the similarities too.

[PawPaw]

Unless there's some aetheric limitation in place due to the sundering it makes no sense that they wouldn't be reborn as full Ancients.

Yep. Didn't Emet-Selch tell us that if we survived the Rejoinings that we'd be "complete", meaning like them again? So then why would that not logically be the case for souls that are being born into the world at 14/14? At least we can say we're only 9/14 and have a ways to go but what would the reasoning be for them? They haven't thought anything out and man does it show.

[Schwarzwind]

Yep. Didn't Emet-Selch tell us that if we survived the Rejoinings that we'd be "complete", meaning like them again? So then why would that not logically be the case for souls that are being born into the world at 14/14? At least we can say we're only 9/14 and have a ways to go but what would the reasoning be for them? They haven't thought anything out and man does it show.

This is also something I have been wondering. Maybe due to the sundering of the aetheric sea one can only be reborn sundered as well? No idea. Let's hope they adress this issue someday.

[Rulakir]

They haven't thought anything out and man does it show.

The theme of the Q&A LL, unfortunately. I'm going to guess they have no intention of having any of them reincarnate within the WoL's lifespan. It seems like there is a choice in whether or not souls choose to be reborn and if those within Zodiark aren't keen on sundered Etheirys they may decide to stay put for awhile. I'm just going to use that as fuel for my headcanon that eventually the Source becomes whole again. :P

I'm still bothered by the fact that the Final Days seemingly destroyed sundered souls though. There are a significant amount of Ancients who can never come back now. It seems like there's no end to their tragedy.

[IdowhatIwant]

I think it is pretty bad that Yoshi P had to come out and state that Zenos is actually dead, you know that's why they showed him stop breathing in the scene.

I saw him slit his own throat... why would I think he is now dead when he just closed his eyes and breathed out loudly.

[KageTokage]

Zenos said he wanted to die and even assuming he didn't quite literally "burn the candle of his life", it's stated that reaper avatars have a precedent for preying on their pact-bearers the moment their souls begin to wane, so I'm inclined to think he is actually dead and that the void shenanigans in the 6.1 trailer are linked to his avatar somehow.

That said, I am genuinely interested in the direction the new story is headed in, with ancient mysteries and the void seeming to be a focus.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Just curious on why they want more stories centered around Zenos, it would be his avatar but still i’m sure they’ll find some way to stick him back in.He’s beyond redundant, and i don’t see what’s so compelling about him to keep making stories with him and not characters that are way more interesting like some of the ancients.

[Brinne]

Pfffft, I want more stories involving Zenos. May our bestie tag along with us on the most mundane and absurd of fetch quests and side activities, with the dulcet tones of Luke Allen-Gale shouting "HAVE YOU THE STRENGTH???" as he activates a Same-Plus combo in our Triple Triad matches and beyond.