What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[PawPaw]

So, for all the replies, there are plenty of reasons WHY Venat didn't tell the other Ancients.

Simply put, there was no point.

I'm sorry, what? There was no point in telling the race of godlike beings who can create anything they can imagine about an enemy who was going to attempt to destroy them? Putting aside that this a subversive and traitorous act in and of itself, the fact that they came up with an effective solution to the Final Days by chance was pretty amazing. IMAGINE what they could have done with forewarning about the enemy, the nature of the enemy, the enemies weaknesses and a chance to prepare. Maybe find a way to shield the planet that didn't involve sacrificing 75% of the population? Who knows, they were never given the opportunity to try because apparently, there was no point.

The best they could come up with was Zodiark? Um, yeah, when you have NO IDEA what is happening to your world and you have to make quick and rash decisions as you watch everything burn around you, it's not going to feel as though you have many options. And the whole time, Venat sat back and said nothing. Not a thing. She watched the world burn. She watched her people die. She watched them fumble. And only at the end did she claim moral supremacy and destroy her world, her people, everything she claimed to love so very much. Genocide. All for the sake of a nobody she met in Elpis for a few hours.

And band-aid? man I wish I could find a band-aid that's half as effective after being ripped into 14 pieces for 12k years.

[KariTheFox]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

[HollowedDoll]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

Well, quite easy if you save the ancients these people don't die either.. say goodbye to Minfilia say hi to Mnemosyne, who is idly useless on Etheirys, quite the same character in retrospect.

I mean if Amon is just a shittier Hermes I don't see why anyone else's situation on the source would be much different.. Especially considering that it's showcased with your character Ardbert, Azem.

[Theodric]

World of Warcraft tried its hand at awkward, selective fanservice where fans of certain characters, factions and playable races were screwed over repeatedly whilst bestowing every advantage and plot armour to the same select few characters at every turn. It didn't work out in that game's favour, so there's no reason to believe that it'd work out here either.

Especially when resentment is growing towards the Scions on many fronts as of late due to overexposure and a lack of stakes.

A story where the consequences only exist for the antagonists isn't particularly compelling and since the development team lack the stones to follow through with even a single major death amongst the major protagonist characters then there's little point in pursuing a continued stance of wildly unbalanced fanservice.

[Xirean]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

This is actually a good argument to not have time travel or undoing tragedies in the first place.

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

I don't give a crap about saving Emet. Don't expect me to time travel in a world where I know that branching timelines exist and not try to make a branching timeline.

[KariTheFox]

This is actually a good argument to not have time travel or undoing tragedies in the first place.



I don't give a crap about saving Emet. Don't expect me to time travel in a world where I know that branching timelines exist and not try to make a branching timeline.

I admit to having protagonist perspective bias here, but to me the main and important difference between the ancients and the 8UC is that one is a tragedy you would be trying to undo, and the other is a tragic future you are working to prevent. Do other stories handle time travel better? Sure. But I can forgive FFXIV because the time travel is just a vehicle for getting various pieces into place to tell the actual relevant story.

[Xirean]

I admit to having protagonist perspective bias here, but to me the main and important difference between the ancients and the 8UC is that one is a tragedy you would be trying to undo, and the other is a tragic future you are working to prevent. Do other stories handle time travel better? Sure. But I can forgive FFXIV because the time travel is just a vehicle for getting various pieces into place to tell the actual relevant story.

I have to disagree. From the WoL's perspective this is accurate and barely so. G'raha traveled back in time to undo something that happened in his lifetime. For us we are preventing but for him he is reversing. However, for all we know, that timeline he came from still exists. He is still here with us, which means either he is immune to time alterations or time alterations don't matter. I'm not going to excuse bad writing to say that time travel is a vehicle. There are implications that are made with the events that EW presents. Those implications matter and currently the writing on the wall is that nothing matters so long as it looks cool and the good guys are all ok in the end. That's not good. That's not satisfying. That's actually rather insulting.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

So…you’re proving my point. Rules for thee as not for me. That’s something people have actually echoed many times though, that the current tragedies in the game have little to no impact because it’s constantly reversed. Tempering? Has a cure and preventive talisman now. Yshtola using flow and supposedly having a shorter lifespan and draining? Not even mentioned since HW. 8UC? Oh sure go ahead and time travel and potentially sacrifice billions of lives if it’s to save our hero. Ultima Thule sacrifices? Oh no worries, no need to deal with loss and suffering like the expansion preaches, your friends can all come back.

TLDR: It’s okay when we do it countless times, but for the one time to save the ancients, it’s wrong, it would just lead to ballooning etc. Funny how no one was saying that when it was brought up in ShB to save the main cast.

[KariTheFox]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

[Theodric]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

When that applies to the major protagonists? Sure. Until then, I'll continue to push for the hypocrisy of 'rules for thee but not for me' to be exposed for what it is.

I actually prefer tragic and bittersweet stories, though a key point in that enjoyment is consistency. There's nothing consistent about what the Ancients were forced to endure and when time travel, memory loss and all manner of other strange plot devices are blended together it ceases to be a case of 'tragedy' and more of a bizarre fever dream.