More unneccesary nerfs to older content

[Saraide]

I wasn't referring to Landslide specifically, pot meet kettle?

Ah so you're ok with titan getting that change then? Atleast some sense is found here, which makes me very glad

[Raim]

You guys whine too much. The whole "Getting knocked off a platform so you're forced to just watch the rest of the fight" is poor game design, and a terrible impression for people just starting a game. There shouldn't just be random fights where it happens, and others where it doesnt. These were strange, old archaic outliers that needed changing. It was a relic of the past that isn't even present in Stormblood and beyond.

[Padudu]

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

[Ransu]

This isn't a nerf...Of all the things to complain about, adding the ability to be resurrected after dying from an out of bounds situation is not a change worthy of crying about. This is a good change, especially for new players. Who the hell wants to get hit by a mechanic they were unaware of and then spend the rest of the fight dead? Come on.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

If I'm to be frank neither of these highlighted dungeons actually forced me to take anything away from them as a learning experience. At least not in any way that I haven't learned something a lot more relevant later on. Most people in normal story mode content aren't really going to be drawing a wealth of experience and knowledge from completely one-off encounters until they've done them several times. Regarding the morbol fruits, I would beg to differ. It teaches you to look at your debuff bar and act accordingly. Many encounters in the game will put you in a position where you need to look at your debuff bar. Whether or not you spend future encounters picking up fruits or not, you'll still be forced to act according to your debuffs. Be it with marching debuffs, or doom.

If a mechanic kills you for failing it, then it is a punishing mechanic. There's no need to punish someone needlessly by taking them out of the pull indefinitely. If people are dying to mechanics like flies then the chances are you aren't hitting that enrage check. If you die, that check just becomes more stringent, it's as simple as that. Story mode is intended in that you can clear without it being a hindrance to the group if someone is ill-prepared, be it woefully or otherwise, but aside from these mechanics that existed in more difficult areas of the content, e.g. Extreme, then I'm sorry but if someone is spending the majority of the fight dying repeatedly then in most peoples' case you'll be hitting an enrage check.

Again, if a mechanic kills you outright, whether it be via fall damage and perma-incapacitation or something more widespread such as doom then you're still being punished significantly enough as to think "Well, I've done something wrong" - Killing them outright creates that opportunity. I'm sorry but stiffing someone to a bench is not compelling, nor is it engaging. If I have no willingness to learn, then I'm sorry whether I'm on the bench for 20 seconds, or whether I'm on a bench for 5 minutes, doesn't really matter. If anything for a larger portion of players will just find that form of execution more demoralizing than anything. If I want to learn then death alone is going to encourage that.

Whilst I would agree, players shouldn't always be allowed to necessarily die several dozen times in a pull and still clear, I think there are more creative ways of enabling this process than sticking to something as abysmal as perma-incapacitation. Edit: At this point, it's just a matter of principality, though. Some people will find it compelling and fun, some others simply won't. Some people would enjoy the thrill come-back potential of death, some people don't. Personally, I think it just acts as a needless catalyst for making people rage.

[MisterNublet]

Hard, sure.

Extreme, just why?

Perma-death from knock offs were one of the few interesting mechanics that doesn't allowing babysitting of players who couldn't avoid mechanics.

[Kleeya]

Meanwhile, in SE headquarters :

- "So, did you check how the players are reacting to the permadeath removal ? I am sure that they must be very happy that people can not die on purpose anymore to do nothing, while the rest of the team is doing all the work !"
- "Well... About that..."

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

You guys sound like you only exclusively do ARR content lol

Probably because their incessant focus on getting more and more new people into the game while completely dropping the ball on endgame content for veterans, and also the fact a ton of people abuse ilevel cheeses to get no-effort duties for maximum rewards (CT says hi), makes it so ARR tends to be one of the more frequent things people see in day to day roulettes.

Funny, that.

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

[GaleMex]

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

Yes, because I play video games to get knocked off and then watch other people play the game for me while I just get to sit there and stare. If I wanted to watch people play the game so I can learn, let me direct you to this site called YouTube.com.

A Realm Reborn was made in 2ish years, and while YoshiP himself was an MMO veteran and long time game designer himself, his team was relatively inexperienced. There's a lot of tech debt to 1.0 around ARR and just a lot of generally sloppy and amateur game design philosophies. Remember when they said we couldn't get a Cutter's Cry Hard because the map is seeped in 1.0 spaghetti code? The fact that they can even go back and change the map for Totorak and the fall off code in Titan and its ilk shows the team has come a long way and is pulling off the loose threads.

[Padudu]

Probably because their incessant focus on getting more and more new people into the game while completely dropping the ball on endgame content for veterans, and also the fact a ton of people abuse ilevel cheeses to get no-effort duties for maximum rewards (CT says hi), makes it so ARR tends to be one of the more frequent things people see in day to day roulettes.

Funny, that.

Also to those saying falling off of Titan or w/e "didn't let you learn anything"... you realize people could watch the fight while permadead, right? They could see mechanics going out, in what order, what they do, and generally get a sense of how to work through them by watching other players performing them. I'm not really bothered one way or another about that specifically, but they are effectively removing teaching tools for the sake of making ARR content even more boring and safe than it already was.

I wonder if they're ever going to change up CT, something tells me I doubt it or at least I doubt anytime soon. Anyway besides CT in the DF I hardly get ARR content lately, but I also don't really do leveling unless I'm leveling a baby job.. and even then I just potd or something. But yeah I'm in agreement I wish endgame content was more robust but clearly it hasn't been their focus for a long time.

Also it's probably not just me that tabs out/looks at my phone when permadeath is in play, right? I guarantee you most people likely mentally clock out once they realize they can't be revived lol. It's just not fun to sit there dead. A good way to learn mechanics is by.. doing them too. Which I'm sure the majority would rather do than just simply watch, but to each their own I guess