What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Again, I agree with this point. But the argument that Hydaelyn's actions were never doubted at all is just not true.



If my friend A) wanted it and B) claimed that it would be beneficial to our plans to, you know, save the world, yes I would.

People consent to things that kill them all the time. Especially when it comes to religion. Hell, in the era we live in right now, I'm not going to go and force a mask on someone's face or jab a syringe into them just because I'm worried they might die from COVID because of some silly religious/political beliefs.



Tbh, they've never really explained how that even worked. I'm not sure whether Hydaelyn was deliberately passing down that power or if it was just something automatic, like Gaia. I guess we'll see, if Ryne still has her powers even after Hydaelyn's gone.



People going too far in one direction doesn't make you correct when you go too far in the OTHER direction.

Again, i’m not going too far in the other direction. Okay i’m sorry, Yshtola doubts her a couple times. Meanwhile the other scions? All blindly following hydaelyn. So sorry. Compare that to how the ascians and Zodiark are treated and yeah…. It really isn’t reaching too far. It’s painfully obvious that they retconned the whole suspicious of Hydaelyn thing. I mean if you want a better example, when we have the choice to bring up hydaelyn’s lies to the watcher, he simply says yeah she lied, and then that’s completely handwaved and he goes off on another tangent.Meanwhile how many storylines have we had now that revolved solely around “ascian bad and ebul!”

[CrownySuccubus]

Okay i’m sorry, Yshtola doubts her a couple times. Meanwhile the other scions? All blindly following hydaelyn.

When? Most of the other Scions don't care about Hydaelyn one way or another. The twins are mostly focused on the human element (learning the Forum's plans, saving the Garleans, saving the Hannish, and then using the Ark ). Urianger decides to help the Loporritz with their plans for a while G'raha mostly speculates and conjectures, and comes up with the Elidibus plan. Thancred only cares about Ryne, and Estinien just wants things to stab.

Who, besides Krile, was "following Hydaelyn"? Hell, as I said, it was even repeated several times that they couldn't even figure out what she wanted.

Compare that to how the ascians and Zodiark are treated and yeah…. It really isn’t reaching too far.

Again, Zodiark was already screwed by the time we could have any meaningful interaction with him. Hell, he's not even treated as a villain in the end.

It’s painfully obvious that they retconned the whole suspicious of Hydaelyn thing. I mean if you want a better example, when we have the choice to bring up hydaelyn’s lies to the watcher, he simply says yeah she lied, and then that’s completely handwaved and he goes off on another tangent.

They didn't "retcon" it. They tried to negate it. You can literally start the expansion telling Hydaelyn you don't trust her, and the Scions (esp. Y'shtola) repeatedly bring up how suspicious they are of her plans. It isn't until the WOL goes to Elpis and becomes besties with Venat that the Scions stop suspecting her. And yes, THAT is definitely a valid fault of the story. As I said, I would have loved to have told Venat to drop her entire plan and tell the Convocation the truth.

Meanwhile how many storylines have we had now that revolved solely around “ascian bad and ebul!”

I mean, they were gleefully scheming to eliminate "lesser" races. Though they were victims before and during the Sundering, it's also a fact that they turned into cackling, genocidal madmen over the millennia. The Ancients are basically different people from the Ascians, including the Unsunderd. Even Elidibus, prior to ShB, was only marginally different. Emet-Selch is really the gold standard for Ascians, but he was an exception and not a rule.

As if the fact that Venat sundering Azem, her protege, wasn't bad enough, she spares Emet, then knowingly pits the two against each other in a fight to the death. Once again, why in TF would I trust the person not only responsible for ending my original incarnation by splitting my soul asunder, but knowingly guiding me to the point that I had to kill one of the people who was dearest to me (and vice versa)? Frankly, on a psychological level, it's worse than any other antagonist in the game has done.

As far as we know, Venat did none of that. We're never told how the Unsundered survived the sundering, but we're never told it was a deliberate choice by her.

Likewise, Emet-Selch is the one who wanted to kill you. In fact, Emet-Selch flat out says at one point that he doesn't care about the lives of even Sundered Ascians because if one of them dies, they can just hop to a reflection and look for a different one. Venat is to blame for the sundering in the first place, but don't make excuses for Emet-Selch and the other Ascians. They did what they thought was right, but they still had nothing but contempt for sundered lives.

[Rulakir]

As far as we know, Venat did none of that. We're never told how the Unsundered survived the sundering, but we're never told it was a deliberate choice by her.

LL Q&A @ 3:41:25 - How did the unsundered escape being sundered?

Venat let Emet live on purpose. He happened to be with Lahabrea and Elidibus at the time and helped each other escape through a "crack" into the rift.

Likewise, Emet-Selch is the one who wanted to kill you.

Well, he had his chance and didn't take it instead choosing to befriend and journey with us. It wasn't until the WoL failed to contain the light aether of all the Lightwardens, something that would've been inconsequential to the Ancients, that he became disappointed. There's an interview with Yoshi-P about this somewhere too, about how Emet wanted to believe we were Azem but our failure made him think he was mistaken. It's part of why when we merge with Ardbert and he sees the shade of Azem he's still in denial. At that point, however, we had become the aggressors. Believe me, I would've loved to have had the option to sit and talk, but the game said I had to throw down. :P

[CrownySuccubus]

LL Q&A @ 3:41:25 - How did the unsundered escape being sundered?

Venat let Emet live on purpose. He happened to be with Lahabrea and Elidibus at the time and helped each other escape through a "crack" into the rift.

Got it. Well, good to have clarification on that, assuming they don't change their minds again. I accept that I was wrong, though.

Well, he had his chance and didn't take it instead choosing to befriend and journey with us. It wasn't until the WoL failed to contain the light aether of all the Lightwardens, something that would've been inconsequential to the Ancients, that he became disappointed. There's an interview with Yoshi-P about this somewhere too, about how Emet wanted to believe we were Azem but our failure made him think he was mistaken. It's part of why when we merge with Ardbert and he sees the shade of Azem he's still in denial. At that point, however, we had become the aggressors. Believe me, I would've loved to have had the option to sit and talk, but the game said I had to throw down. :P

Yeah, my but my basic point was that Emet made his choices. The only reason he chooses to be civil with the WOL is because he thinks there's something unique about them that might A) prove that further Rejoinings aren't necessary or B) let the WOL remember their time as friends and join his side. I personally believe that even if he didn't care about killing other "Sundered" Ascians, he probably would have made an exception for Azem and fought to protect them no matter what. But, his cruelty and contempt for everyone else was still his own doing. (Which is, of course, what makes him such a compelling antagonist.)