What are the impediments to designing the ultimate game?

[Eraden]

Wow, thanks for some very illuminating responses, folks. I appreciate this input because it is making me think about aspects of MMO games that I hadn't really considered before.

[Vidu]

The impediment is the consumers xD Its impossible to have the ultimate game because for every like there's a dislike and the attempt to please everybody in general isn't good business sense because its extremely resource intensive to produce and maintain.

Honestly, as a consumer I dont think I'd even want The One Game To Rule Them All, aka the one game that caters to everyone because I dont see any benefit in that for me - quite the opposite: different likes attract different crowds of people and when it somes to MMOS, chosing a game also means choosing a crowd of people.
Now lets say one is a real hardcore-player, very focused on raiding/endgame and pushing their numbers to the limit - that person would pick a game that caters to that taste and theres a good chance that most of the others players are there for the same reason. They all have a good chance that most of their fellow teammates share the same goals and ideas of what an enjoyable experience is so getting a like minded group together is easy.
Lets also assume that we have some whos more casual and intrested in experiencing a story, but not as intrested in hardcore-raiding - that person would probably enjoy a game that caters to that taste and would enjoy it even more when they can play it with like minded people who prefer to talk about lore for hours instead of beating a dummy to squeeze out that little bit extra.

...now what would anyone gain from lumping these two groups together? To some degree you already see this with FFXIV when people talk about gameplay-features or job balance in a very "technical" way and others reply to them with lore reasons why things are like they are. Or you see people requesting ways to exclude those who they deem "to bad" from DF-runs with automatig rating systems and the like.
But imagine this on a larger scale - whats the benefit, specially for me, as player?
Whats the benefit for someone whos into hardcore-raiding to share a game-world with people who are absolutly not intrested in that?
Whats the benefit for someone who just wants to experience a story and chat with friends about lore to share a game-world with people who couldnt care less about it and only want to see bigger numbers?
Wouldnt it be better to have two different games at this point?

[Kes13a]

The impediment is the consumers xD Its impossible to have the ultimate game because for every like there's a dislike and the attempt to please everybody in general isn't good business sense because its extremely resource intensive to produce and maintain.

Also due to maximizing profit reasons, there will hardly be any real innovative products in the near future. Profit margins are tight and companies wouldn't risk venturing into new territories . This is why so many mmo players fall to those scam kickstarter mmo's that promises the best of everything because they want to believe. All we will be getting from big corporations will be the safe, familiar and tested products

I disagree, the King is dying, I think because of that we will see a lot of small mmo ideas trying to get the bleed off from Blizzard. some will work, some wont, but a lot of experimentation out there trying right now

[Serious-Cat]

Wouldnt it be better to have two different games at this point?

Yes its important to design the best product for the targeted consumer. Most of the issues I see in this forum is due to the SE attempt to get as much consumer groups in for perceived maximum profit and while that might initially attract consumers, they wouldn't stay because there's just not enough substance. Yup there's pvp in ff14 but its shallow and basic, there's high end raids in ff14 but it only take memorization to get it done and as long one remembers the way it can be cleared repeatedly with no issues, causing it to be just a repetitive grind for BIS.

I watched the documentary on how Yoshi P saved the game by focusing on the core of ff14 franchise which is the story. Final fantasy is all about the story and a place for you to immerse yourself in however it conflicted with the subscription monetization of the game and the attempt to add value to a subscription is just various tidbits that over time developed a following and after a decade, we have vocal parts of the game demanding changes and stuff. PVP players wanted more robust and engaging PVP, Raiders want more difficult fight sequences, crafters want more puzzles and chances in their crafting, rpers want more stuff to rp with and more, rpg players that just want to play their final fantasy rpg an hour a day/with friends and more

Over time the demands of each category of players will increase in scope and its just not sustainable in the end as anything new will be repetitive eventually. I can see the vision of trying to go back to more like a single player game. Its a cry to return back to its roots and at the same time because of a conflicting business model, Yoshi P and team will just have to meet the demands in the most cost effective way because every corporation mantra is "lower cost and maximize profits every year"

It would be much better to monetize different products accordingly but its a bit too late now. FF14 is that meeting that could have been an email xD

[Serious-Cat]

I disagree, the King is dying, I think because of that we will see a lot of small mmo ideas trying to get the bleed off from Blizzard. some will work, some wont, but a lot of experimentation out there trying right now

The MMO market is very niche and is not that profitable in the greater entertainment business but have the most passionate and dedicated players but one thing that is very clear is MMO players want a world they can escape into and Im not sure what part you are disagreeing with but a lot of fake kickstarter mmos are promising everything to scam mmo genre players.

As for corporations, how many versions of FPS/Match 3/MOBA is in the market? Its a lot of the same old same old recycled content but it sells. An indie developer can take the risk of making an action scroller platformer, the worst that can happen, said indie developer get some boos and go bankrupt or many people play that new cool game but the expectations, reputation and funds establish corporations wield is much harder and complex thus just going for the same old same old familar game people played before.

[Liam_Harper]

To be fair, there have been some amazing games in the past. FF14 and WoW used to be one. I've even played F2P MMO's that used to be great. You don't have to achieve perfection or please everyone, you just need something that is solid fun and then stick with it.

The biggest problem I've seen is developers. I don't mean to be judgmental, making an MMO is highly complex, I couldn't do it myself and I respect anyone who has any sort of success with it. But invariably good MMO's seem to reach a point where most players praise the game and all it needs is to polish and refine what they have ...and they always seem to ruin it.

A big part is that developers are human. They want to leave their mark on their game. They get too confident at their success and think "they love my work, I'll go all out!". They get greedy and see a potential market and pour everything into attracting that audience. They overthink. They're like the sculptor who made a beautiful marble statue but just can't settle with it and keep chipping away until it's destroyed.

Making a perfect game is impossible, but for me personally a game like ff14 could absolutely be better. I'm a former WoW player at heart and if there was a game with WoW's (past) combat, achievements, glamor system, toybox, pet battles, minion/mount tabs and FF14's level of story telling, old Crafting and gathering, all jobs on one character, anti-harassment policies and developer attitude, no endless treadmills or wow tokens, I'd happily accept any small flaws it had and jump ship to that game without hesitation.

[Xirean]

Honestly even when you have an aspect of the game that hits really well, it can still become too much. A lot of people may like the story of 14 for example. But there's a lot of it, and even if you were to go through the whole thing, no skips, it might not have the same kind of impact it would had you played through it over the course of a year or two.

[Minarisweet]

Just to ass an example here:


This is already a "controversial" feature of FFXIV since there are a lot of people who dont care about the story and want to jump straight to endgame - at the same time there are a lot of people who enjoy the story or play mainly because of the story (and care less about endgame). Trying to really sastify both cmaps seems like not such a great idea to me - I mean: Why would you if you could just make to different games that excel in their respectives aspects (story/endgame) while sprinkling in a little bit of the other.

I really think if they would design more substantial and long lasting content that wasn't done in 2 or 3 days like bozja a lot of people like me would be satisfied, it doesn't take many resources to do stuff like that.

[KageTokage]

I really think if they would design more substantial and long lasting content that wasn't done in 2 or 3 days like bozja a lot of people like me would be satisfied, it doesn't take many resources to do stuff like that.

I'm kind of concerned that given all the "new" content on the table like the Criterion dungeons and Island Sanctuary that we're not going to get a new exploration zone, as those historically have been some of the best content for keeping people occupied at length, and I loved the large scale raids like Baldesion Arsenal personally.

[Avatre]

Surely you could poll the player community and find out if there is some kind of consensus on these various features. Even if there were no clear choices in terms of popularity, the raw data from such a survey should probably provide some insight into what most of the players would want. I guess in this context, for me, the ultimate game would be the one that could satisfy the largest amount of players.

The problem with polling the community is that you will only get the people who respond. There will always be many more who don't bother, or completely forget to answer in time. Think about a reporter out asking people for their opinions, how many say something about "don't have time" or "don't care"? The reporter could ask 300+ people, but only get half that responding. Polls, while they do give some insight, wouldn't provide a complete picture, so some people will always be left dissatisfied with the results of what happens due to a poll.

So honestly, the players themselves are the impediment to a "perfect" game because some will not like what the devs themselves created, or will dislike what the community has asked the devs to adjust/add/remove - especially if one of those things greatly impacts what they do enjoy in the game.