Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Banriikku]

The funny part is when SE marketed Sage as the „DPS“-Healer. which got everyone excited! I wasn‘t expecting too much, but I still was disappointed.

Yeah.... SGE is as the other healers and please dont tell me "But Kardia!!!" because thats BS. I choose for this Savage Tier SGE as my go to and be honest, i should have stayed AST. Atleast card management keeps me awake >.< but they already stated, they would like the AST to be the same brain desolving expierence as WHM.

[Semirhage]

Dear healers,

Let's on go strike until they give our job back ! ^^
Let's play another role until then.

I already started maining Red Mage as Stormblood came to an end. I felt which way the wind was blowing, and the Shadowbringers job previews cemented it. If you hate how healers play now, switch to DPS. Many of the jobs are actually well designed and fun to play, because it's the only role Square cares about. I wouldn't expect healers to make a turnaround anytime soon. Yoshida and the job design team weren't hesitantly testing out the "Sylphies are great and spamming Glare a million times is amazing game design", they were gleefully racing toward that dead-end cliff; if anything, Endwalker is proof they saw Shadowbringers healer design and kept going full-tilt for that jump off the cliff.

If the last three expansions have taught me anything, it's that the Japanese community LOVES Cure-spamming precious kawaii princess healer design. It's gaming in "girlfriend" mode. Healers exist to cast cure spells and gasp with concern when the big strong tank or the brave DPS get scratched. This isn't a negotiation between people who actually know how healers play when they get skilled and the developers. The stupid design direction they took WHM in Stormblood is the gold standard template for the entire role. They think current healer design is actually good. The very idea that this opinion is preposterous isn't in the neighborhood.

I'll continue to protest this ridiculous clown show that the healer role has become, but I have no illusions that I'll do something so prosaic as making an actual change in this design paradigm. We've been telling them and telling them and telling them for over half a decade now, and they don't care. "But HeALeRs ShOULd hEaL onLy. It'S YoUR RoLE." is the deadpan reply you get to all objections.

[technole]

I wouldn’t say i there aren’t any changes sage needs. I’d enjoy it if toxikon got a change to where it was usable in more cases than just downtime and prepull.

There is a difference between needs and wants, that is intentional. Sage already does more damage than White Mage.

They can't give Sage another free damage button with no downside. It's a boxed-in skill to not make E.Diag to be much of a loss if it's necessary somewhere outside of downtime.

[Nethereal]

Just gunna put this here, I play SGE because it's WHM but good(based on current standards).

[Deceptus]

Just gunna put this here, I play SGE because it's WHM but good(based on current standards).

Same reason if I do play healer anymore it's Sage.

It's better than SCH but without having to deal with the clunky fairy.

[AnotherPerson]

There is a difference between needs and wants, that is intentional. Sage already does more damage than White Mage.

They can't give Sage another free damage button with no downside. It's a boxed-in skill to not make E.Diag to be much of a loss if it's necessary somewhere outside of downtime.

Sure they can. Just make addersting naturally charge overtime after using a certain number of addersgall actions or Dosis actions. Alternatively, let addersting naturally generate like addersgall, but at a slower rate. It still doesn't make E. Diagnosis any more viable, but also gives something else to use other than Dosis constantly. Plus, currently Toxikon II is DPS neutral so there's really no DPS gain from using it outside of mobility and weaving.

I'm confused why healers always have to have a 'downside' to using the skill when tanks and DPS usually don't have a 'downside' to using their free damage buttons. Shouldn't using the job gauge be encouraged? Having such a core identity of the job be used as little as possible makes no sense to me.

The same applies to White Mage - their afflatus healing spells is DPS negative rather than DPS Neutral so players are recommended to use lilies only after they use their healing abilities. It seems so strange to discourage using the job gauge of your own role.

[Sani2341]

Plus, currently Toxikon II is DPS neutral

Not sure how Toxicon currently is supposed to be damage neutral.
as it requires a stack of addersting, it takes two GCDs to use one Toxicon => so 165 potency per GCD.
Where as Dosis hits for 330 potency every GCD you cast it.

Which is exactly the issue with Toxicon, outside of the up to 3 stacks you can get from casting e.diagnosis during downtime, it's a 50% damage loss compared to just spamming Dosis. Unless you litteraly just reapplied it, even refreshing E. Dosis early if the last one got at least two ticks of is close to damage neutral with generating and using a toxicon if you got no addersting stacks left.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Not sure how Toxicon currently is supposed to be damage neutral.
as it requires a stack of addersting, it takes two GCDs to use one Toxicon => so 165 potency per GCD.
Where as Dosis hits for 330 potency every GCD you cast it.

They probably assume said addersting is generated during downtime, which yes, it makes Toxicon II casts dps neutral.

[Deceptus]

They probably assume said addersting is generated during downtime, which yes, it makes Toxicon II casts dps neutral.

That's the problem with a LOT of the healers skills. SE seems to think we're Healers who dabble in DPS but the reality of the game they've developed is we're DPS who dabble in healing.

You should want to use your abilities, not just sit on them. Not only get access to them during downtime.

Toxikon seems to be designed as a reward for playing your job well as a Sage (preventing damage) but in reality it's not in the DPS minded game that is currently developed because literally everything is based on optimization and that means damage.

Toxikon is a bad skill in Single Target situations, Dosis simply hits harder.

Toxikon is a bad skill in AoE situations, Dyskrasia hits harder when there's 3 or more enemies.

Toxikon is a poorly designed skill. It could be decent if the numbers were higher but it's simply not, and the FFXIV devs are loath to increase healer damage.

[AnotherPerson]

Not sure how Toxicon currently is supposed to be damage neutral.
as it requires a stack of addersting, it takes two GCDs to use one Toxicon => so 165 potency per GCD.
Where as Dosis hits for 330 potency every GCD you cast it.

Which is exactly the issue with Toxicon, outside of the up to 3 stacks you can get from casting e.diagnosis during downtime, it's a 50% damage loss compared to just spamming Dosis. Unless you litteraly just reapplied it, even refreshing E. Dosis early if the last one got at least two ticks of is close to damage neutral with generating and using a toxicon if you got no addersting stacks left.

Only time Toxikon is Damage neutral is when you intentionally gain it pre-pull or use outside of transitions. You don't build addersting intentionally otherwise, unless it coincides with requiring single target GCD shield. However, if you had to GCD shield while the enemy is targetable, you already have a DPS loss. That's the problem with Toxikon at the moment - you really have very limited uses of the skill for being DPS Neutral before the gauge gets discouraged and should be ignored.


If Eukrasian Diagnosis is just one of many ways to gain Toxikon, I think it would be fine as long as the other ways of gaining Toxikon didn't require a DPS loss (ex: using Dosis multiple times to generate 1 addersting, thus incentivizing addersting skills without forcing Eukrasian Diagnosis spam, but not taking away extra ways to manage addersting when you can pull for it during transitions).