The Dead Ends is brutal for tanks, I end up quitting any random queues for this duty

[SargeTheSeagull]

So out of all the dungeons in this game, this has to be the worst for a tank. If your Healer uses Esuna and the party doesn't stand in the wrong place it can be great but I have been in way to many runs where the tank gets hated on because the Healer is either DPSing to much and not healing or using Esuna or the DPS is just standing in the wrong spots.

When I am in this run as a Healer its fine because I just focus on healing and Esuna anything that needs it. Even with that I find most of the time the DPS will be standing in the wrong spot causing problems. If you have a DPS Healer here its just a miserable run.

I remember my last run on this duty we wiped five times on the last boss because the Healer was just to focused on DPSing and somehow that's the tanks problem. Finally the last one the Healer decides to actually focus on Healing and we finished the run.

I only play this dungeon if its on a Trust or I am playing it as a Healer. I tried it as a DPS and the piling on of tanks is just horrible. I took a couple 30 minutes time outs today as this place just isn't worth it.

Thankfully, one tank left before I entered as a tank so when I left I didn't get a time out. They need to do something with this dungeon.

I'm gonna be that guy. I just pulled up your barse. Just press buttons and you'll be okay. Literally no uses of holy sheltron, most of your damage came from Confiteor, basically no uses of any other mitigation, and i won't even mention how much damage you did. Before blaming others, consider whether or not you are the one who messed up.

[Hyuinn]

While this is normally true....the PLD is built to be able to do that without an issue. If you're not doing it then you're not using your full kit and should be ashamed. Clemency at the very least serves as somewhat of a tank cooldown. (GNB gets a 10% reduction, PLD gets Clem - which is actually better imo)

EDIT:
Just to add, as a GNB, with significantly less self healing than you have as a PLD, I have not once had any issue with Dead Ends except on Day 1 when NOBODY knew what to do.

Clemency it's not really better because you stop hitting things to do it. It's for emergencies or roleplay only. Intervention it's a lot better since heals the same amount (over 12sec) and reduces damage taken on top of that, without having to spend a requiescat stack or casting a 0 damage spell. The only catch is that it's a regen so it might not be enough if done too late.

[Hyuinn]

Not excusing anything, but the game could do a better job at teaching about dispels.

I agree, even in Savage and Ultimate it's not used very often. Remember back in SB when Esuna was an optional role action and every time 2 people died to Exdeath normal mode because none of them equipped it to dispel the doom? Not only that, the game doesn't have any AoE dispelling tools in case your whole group gets affected by something (let's say failing to interrupt adds in Puppet's Bunker and everyone gets a paralyze) because the only one that existed (SCH Selene's when it was different from Eos) they removed so people wouldn't cheese Living Liquid's debuff in TEA.

I really feel like the Hall of Novice should not only be updated but mandatory, especially if people bought level skips. Maybe have some job specifics as well, would help a lot of DPS that have no idea what an enrage is and are doing less damage than tanks or healers.

[Hyuinn]

O_O

A tank should never be the healer for the dungeon. That some people consider this normal is horrible.

I agree that I shouldn't be, however there were times that I needed to, and that's why I started working on myself to not rely on them as much (or at all).

[Aimbotnimo]

I've run the dungeon with gnb/drk/war and while drk has the least mits, I've never had any problems wiping it. Mostly, the reason for wipes would be the group not doing enough dps to melt the pack and the tank running out of mits on the next pack. Like seriously the complaint should be use your big cooldowns (damage and heal) to plow through the pack. aside from looking at the floor and your debuffs, this dungeon's one of your intro to harder stuff like the raids and savage content. If you're arguing against those late game stuff then stick to trusts. I'm gonna imagine this is a delayed april fool's thread.

[ty_taurus]

Not excusing anything, but the game could do a better job at teaching about dispels. I know they added the blue line above cleansable debuffs in ShB (I believe), but the game never explains what the line means. It’s also not as noticeable as it could be. I’ve seen third-party plugins that actually highlight player names and/or place an icon above their character model that indicates they need a cleanse. I know SE doesn’t like the evil add-ons, but something like that might be beneficial in the future. Maybe something for them to think about.

Regarding Doom, there are two kinds in FFXIV: heal to full Dooms and Esuna Dooms. The game does a poor job of really teaching which is which. Even with the new cleansable line, I’ve caught healers in Dun Scaith attempting to heal to cleanse Deathgaze Hollow’s Doom versus using Esuna—and seen them try to Esuna the Doom in Wanderer’s Palace HM versus healing to full. Maybe different icons would help with this. However, the Wanderer’s Palace boss gives you a clue that the debuff is a heal to full mechanic, but people don’t always pay attention to dialogue boxes.

Dead Ends is also a new kind of Doom debuff that differs from the standard Doom.

Something I've wanted for years now is changing cleansable debuffs to be displayed like they are in FFXII (similar to other aspects of the game's UI) where the debuff icon and name should flicker while overlaying the afflicted party member's HP bar in the party window. You can check out this example:


https://imgur.com/Xa9P4C7

You can also see what the flickering aspect looks like during gameplay in this video example of the same boss. You can also skip ahead to about 2:15 to see what it looks like when someone has multiple cleansable debuffs at a time, after the boss uses Confuse on the blinded Vaan.
https://youtu.be/95UjHTt0XCY?t=75

As it stands, debuffs that can be cleansed are not only not visible enough for most players, but it's also something that only gets used a handful of times per expansion and thus is very easy to forget/ignore. Considering Esuna has to eat up space on our hotbars anyway, I'd like to see me actually need to use it for a change. I'm sure Bards wouldn't mind seeing Paean justifying its existence as well. And if we increase the visibility of cleansable debuffs, that can also justify using them more in content.

[Mikey_R]

Something I've wanted for years now is changing cleansable debuffs to be displayed like they are in FFXII (similar to other aspects of the game's UI) where the debuff icon and name should flicker while overlaying the afflicted party member's HP bar in the party window.

To my knowledge, all debuffs in FFXII can be cleansed, so there is no distinction that can be made, that location also cycles through the buffs your character has if memory serves.

Just to play devil's advocate to your idea, if you have it over their name on the party list, you still have to look in that area to see it anyway, so surely you would see the debuff icon next to their name there anyway? I know when I do content as a healer, which isn't often I will admit, every single time an AoE comes out I check to see if someone got hit so I can deal with them. In that instance I can also see if they have a debuff. Even just over time, you learn what causes a debuff and you can keep an eye out for it next time.

As for having it next to the party members HP above their character, are you always going to see that? Are you always going to be able to tell who it is, especially in 8 man and 24 man content?

What actually needs to happen is better communication from the game that there are certain debuffs that can be cleansed. I had a quick look through the 'Active Help' menu and there is nothing there that talks about the different debuffs at all.

[HisShadowX]

Let's just say I have a "feeling" that the OP doesn't use Holy Spirit, Holy Circle, Arms Length, Reprisal, Goring Blade, Fight or Flight or Low Blow at all, mostly ignores Intervene and maybe uses 2-3 Rampart and Sentinel per Expert.

Just a "hunch".

I'm sure it's those evil dps healers really.

Are you the same guy who after posting this is going into other threads claiming I don't use such and such because you posted this message lol

While this is normally true....the PLD is built to be able to do that without an issue. If you're not doing it then you're not using your full kit and should be ashamed. Clemency at the very least serves as somewhat of a tank cooldown. (GNB gets a 10% reduction, PLD gets Clem - which is actually better imo)

EDIT:
Just to add, as a GNB, with significantly less self healing than you have as a PLD, I have not once had any issue with Dead Ends except on Day 1 when NOBODY knew what to do.

To clarify I do not just use a PLD I have maxed every tank class except Warrior and will never max a Warrior out. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/22831323/

Healers are expected to dispel too.

If you get that debuff on first boss, you're dead if it's not dispelled. That's what he's complaining about.

I get a lot of dps that stand in stuff and healers that don't use esuna, but rather try to heal through it...

I just was in the level 50 dungeon with Diablos as the boss and the Healer refused to use Esuna. The tank had eventually has four poisons on him. My general rule is when leveling trying to work new Tanks and Healers but this run was horrible. Tank did pull way to much his first time pulling but yeah once the tank adjusted his pulls since the Healer didn't heal or use Esuna it was a horrible run. Esuna is a good send I wish more people would use it.

Unrelated to the quoted post, my worst case with this one was a healer that apparently did not believe that the debuff was causing them to die, despite me saying several times. When they finally esuna'd the debuff, they obviously lived. This is also explaining that they got it from standing in AoEs, and they still didn't dodge them. This is the only bad time I have had in this dungeon and it was literally because the healer did not take the advice on what the boss does and how to handle the debuff. Unfortunately, I think I was on DRK at the time, so I couldn't just solo the boss down easily, but this is a prime example of why you should listen to others and take their advice and do not try and correct them despite not knowing yourself. The rest of the run was fine with no issues after that.

I think we all had that moment where we thought we knew what we were doing but after you wipe a couple times its sort of obvious. Now in your situation what would suck is if you were the tank and both the DPS and the Healer blamed you because of the wipes.

[LeonKeyh]

In addition to communicating cleansing debuffs better to players in general, it would be nice if debuffs that can be cleansed had a visual cue over the players' heads. E.G, a doom debuff having a skull over the person's head, poison debuff having snake or poison drops, etc. I agree that if it were just something over the name plate, you'd be able to see the icon anyway, what is needed is something for people who aren't looking at those name plates and are easily identifiable.

Also, they should do better about using that stuff if they expect people to cleanse it, rather than waiting 2-3 expansions before using it again.


Also also, there shouldn't be a huge gap between those debuffs, some are just a little annoying and it aren't worth cleansing and others will kill the person. They should really make it so all of them are worth cleansing. An easy way of doing that would be making Esuna an OGCD instacast that restores MP instead of costing it. Just saying.

[HisShadowX]

Not excusing anything, but the game could do a better job at teaching about dispels. I know they added the blue line above cleansable debuffs in ShB (I believe), but the game never explains what the line means. It’s also not as noticeable as it could be. I’ve seen third-party plugins that actually highlight player names and/or place an icon above their character model that indicates they need a cleanse. I know SE doesn’t like the evil add-ons, but something like that might be beneficial in the future. Maybe something for them to think about.

Regarding Doom, there are two kinds in FFXIV: heal to full Dooms and Esuna Dooms. The game does a poor job of really teaching which is which. Even with the new cleansable line, I’ve caught healers in Dun Scaith attempting to heal to cleanse Deathgaze Hollow’s Doom versus using Esuna—and seen them try to Esuna the Doom in Wanderer’s Palace HM versus healing to full. Maybe different icons would help with this. However, the Wanderer’s Palace boss gives you a clue that the debuff is a heal to full mechanic, but people don’t always pay attention to dialogue boxes.

Dead Ends is also a new kind of Doom debuff that differs from the standard Doom.

Agreed and most people need to remember as well most players in this game are playing via controller. So its not easy to hover over the debuff or for the tank simply to quickly tag and provoke a far away enemy

In addition to communicating cleansing debuffs better to players in general, it would be nice if debuffs that can be cleansed had a visual cue over the players' heads. E.G, a doom debuff having a skull over the person's head, poison debuff having snake or poison drops, etc. I agree that if it were just something over the name plate, you'd be able to see the icon anyway, what is needed is something for people who aren't looking at those name plates and are easily identifiable.

Also, they should do better about using that stuff if they expect people to cleanse it, rather than waiting 2-3 expansions before using it again.


Also also, there shouldn't be a huge gap between those debuffs, some are just a little annoying and it aren't worth cleansing and others will kill the person. They should really make it so all of them are worth cleansing. An easy way of doing that would be making Esuna an OGCD instacast that restores MP instead of costing it. Just saying.

As a healer, I never ever had an issue using Esuna. Its quick and fast. Now if your DPSing the entire time and low on MP thats a problem. However the WM also has the ability for MP quick regain which works great even though there is a cool down. I found it easier to Heal using a controller then to tank with a controller. In fact Esuna is so simple to use thats why I have been confused why people do not like using Esuna more.