What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Brinne]

Friend, this continued belief that any of us give a flip about convincing you or "providing entertainment of substance" to appeal to you, despite us telling you multiple times that we do not care about what you like or what games you play, is about the same amount of wishful thinking delusion as "I am the definitive voice of the Final Fantasy fandom."

Your tastes are your tastes. That's fine. It has nothing to do with anyone else, and no one can change them. And furthermore, you're perfectly free to express "I really like European castle aesthetics and I hope we get to see more of them in the game." However, the increasingly aggressive and angry ranting that anyone who would be okay with Australia or anywhere else are "those" players whose money and interests don't or shouldn't count, unlike you, the One True Representative of the fandom's interests, is ridiculous.

[CrownySuccubus]

I see a generic tropical beach, a mansion someone made the decision to paint yellow for some reason, and a place full of fog that I cannot tell whether I am looking at Australia or some misty part of the UK.

If this is all you can bring out to market your Australia expansion you will have to do a better job to get me interested. Your rock and beach are not going to win against this when it comes to Final Fantasy fans. And that is why this is being made into a full-fledged Final Fantasy game and not whatever it is you're jumping through hoops to justify:

Nice goalposts moving. You said you wanted to know why gamers would look at Australian locales and wish they could go there, using a big rock which exists in real Aus.

Then, I showed you very picturesque beaches and popular locales which, in also exist in real Aus and Oceania as examples that...yes, there are places which people actually like to go see.

So then, you move the goalposts by showing a fantasy mountain with a castle which does not exist in real life. If you were being honest, you should have shown a picture of just that big gray rock and nothing built on it.

But, if you want proof of concept ideas for a fantasy Australia/Oceania using similar locales that I showed, here you are:





You know Rivendell, from Lord of the Rings films? Yeah. Its locale was based on, and filmed in, New Zealand.

I mean, hell, if you think tropical beaches and whatnot can't make for beautiful castles and towering landmarks, I have to assume you've never been to Eulmore or Limsa Lominsa.

[Theodric]

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

[tokinokanatae]

The devs are the ones that convince us that a story will be of interest and the locales those stories take place in are worth visiting--and I don't have the time or inclination to join in on your LARPing as an FFXIV dev. The only thing anyone has said to you is that an African and Australian-themed expac has a lot of potential, not that it will automatically be a good expac because of where it takes place.

[aveyond-dreams]

continued words

Thank you for using a film set whose appearance is entirely based on medieval Europe. You've just defeated your own argument. As far as I'm concerned my conversation with you is over and I've won. For the sake of keeping the thread on topic you have since been added to my ignore list, ending this tangent here and now.

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

Agreed, still it was admittedly fun getting them to end up where they did with that last post, but anyway. At the moment I still can't feel like I can look back on Endwalker and take the later parts of my adventure seriously. The farewell and sendoff we gave the scions at the end would have been the perfect moment for them to retire.

If after such a pivotal expansion like Endwalker our main party members are still propped up alone by their actions from far too many years ago, what reason do I have to believe that something will happen to make them evolve in the coming patches? With how limited patch MSQ is, I struggle to believe we will see any upgrades to their otherwise stagnant selves, if not suffer more downgrades in the name of fanservice:



Does anyone else remember this guy? You know, the cool sage who could actually be taken seriously as a character? Or the days when our antagonists connected with us on levels far deeper than nebulous throwaway concepts like "ohh hope vs despair struggle" with a party that fundamentally appears unaffected by any strife or despair.

Moving into these patches it doesn't seem like we will be dealing with any one clear antagonist for the time being, but then I reread one of Lauront's earlier comments and recognized the mages in the trailer as the lambs of Dalamud, a cult from so early in ARR that I had completely forgotten about at this point. I don't know much of their faith, but I remember the voidsent they called forth. The next major antagonists being associated with the void is something I am 100% for, and I believe there is great opportunity for future antagonsist along the lines of Cylva to shine.

Like Emet-Selch, I imagine they would want to find a way to restore the world they lost. But if voidsent are perpetually aether starved, could their society not be almost "vampiric" with more humanoid-looking voidsent lying in wait in unexplored parts of the 13th? I apologize in advance for referencing WoW, but it does seem that the vampire faction along with its leader that they introduced in Shadowlands was well received among their playerbase, and I believe that a similar group of highly intelligent and cunning creatures would be an excellent choice for our major antagonists.

They could be monstrous on the inside, but still walk among people as human beings and provide that human connection we had with Emet-Selch, but rather than "bringing back our God and restoring our people," I imagine the conflict could lean more towards, "I will consume your people in order to save my own, and in so doing reclaim the humanity/paradise I had lost."



Alternatively, we could also have encounters with characters with motivations similar to Ardyn who lie closer to the heart of events on the 13th, what if at the cause of it all there was a betrayal so cruel as the one he suffered in FFXV? I cannot be the only one who finished that game feeling awful for the man, who was later revealed to have been a far more noble individual than the first king of Lucis. A well-put together revenge story like his would be a joy to experience again, bonus points if they don't end up transforming into a total monstrosity in the final battle in order to keep an emphasis on the fact that our enemy is a *Person* who hoped, dreamed, and lived. All in all, it would inject some much needed magic into the world that now finds itself lacking in wake of the demise of Hyadelyn and Zodiark.

Neither Ardyn nor Emet-Selch were created so blatantly as a vehicle to preach to us in the way Hermes was, that is the strength that lies in these characters being able to naturally impart their lessons onto people. Also, if your lead writers are already aware and thinking to themselves, "Hmm, this type of character will probably not resonate with people because the message associated with him is being delivered in too blunt of a way, despite my personal affection towards him," possibly, just possibly listen. I too would be shocked if my boss told me I had to somehow manage to justify the convoluted later portions of Endwalker, I cannot imagine the stress that she must have experienced knowing being forced to add in time travel and memory wiping devices would make for a pretty unstable foundation.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The devs are the ones that convince us that a story will be of interest and the locales those stories take place in are worth visiting--and I don't have the time or inclination to join in on your LARPing as an FFXIV dev. The only thing anyone has said to you is that an African and Australian-themed expac has a lot of potential, not that it will automatically be a good expac because of where it takes place.

Tbf, they haven’t done very well in that regard lately. What with them destroying an entire huge city that was built up for multiple expansions.

[PawPaw]

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

Hard agree.

[CrownySuccubus]

Thank you for using a film set whose appearance is entirely based on medieval Europe. You've just defeated your own argument. As far as I'm concerned my conversation with you is over and I've won. I imagine the European settlers of New Zealand likely built structures there similar to what they had in their own home countries.

No, see, here's the problem. You think that castles and stone masonry architecture are somehow unique to Europe. The entire ridiculousness of your argument is based on the fallacy that Square Enix can't or won't build a castle in some Australian or African locale. You also make the hilariously false assumption that places like, say, Africa or the Polynesian areas never had castles. Which, in fact, they did.





There were also likely a lot more than these, but after centuries/millennia of neglect, most of them no longer stand.

The point remains that "Europe has castles therefore it's better" is an argument steeped in a massive load of both ignorance and nonsensical biases, especially for a fantasy franchise in which you can do THIS:



EDIT for below:

This thread was a great discussion about the story, now it's just 2 rabbits complaining about locations.

Like I said. I'm willing to stop at any time.

Aveyond just has to stop saying nonsense.

Well since a lot of his posts are direct replies to your own, maybe grow up and stop first so we can get back to the discussion at hand.

I mean, nothing's stopping you guys from ignoring us and posting. So by all means, you can practice what you preach and "grow up first" now.

[MicahZerrshia]

This thread was a great discussion about the story, now it's just 2 rabbits complaining about locations.

[SeverianLyonesse]

See you all tomorrow, please prepare your Australia expansion concepts for then! Remember, you can't use any castles, knights, monarchies, gods, or churches. Good luck!

Prison expansion, lol.

Actually, in all honesty Australia could quite comfortably be a "frontier" expansion. Like a slightly more exotic version of the American West. Though imo it would just make sense to combine the two into the "New World", with maybe a sort of triangular spectrum of Austronesia, Latin America, and Anglo America filling out the continent. If the devs approached the New World with the same level of specificity that they did "Europe" and "Asia", we could feasibly have several expansions' worth of content on the other side of the world, cover the entire 10 year story arc even: Polynesia, Mesoamerica, the Andes and Amazon basin, the Caribbean, the American steppes, the Arctic, etc. etc.

I'd like something similar with Meracydia and Africa as well eventually (Egypt, Maghreb, Ethiopia, Swahili Coast, Madagascar, Yoruba/Akan regions, etc. etc.), but given how underrepresented that tends to be in American and Japanese media, I think it would take a lot more work and care to pull off. That said, given the depth of research FF puts into other regions, I think if done well this is the sort of media that could provide much needed exposure and education of African cultures and mythologies.