What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

"My tastes automatically reflect the FF majority and thus must be catered to at all times, without any exception".

I guarantee you that the majority of Final Fantasy players will gravitate more towards a game set in a European or Far Eastern region than they would an Australian, New World, or African one. Defy those tastes and let's see how far the Final Fantasy name brand will carry such a game, because goodness knows they'd never go near it without it.

I understand this may be difficult to understand if the circles you run in revolve around the twitter/tumblr crowd who value checking things off their many lists to include in-game rather than providing entertainment of substance, but it is the truth. What on earth about the wastelands of Australia are going to make people go, "Woah! I want to go there!" Like the skyscrapers of Insomnia or the towers of Ishgard invoked?

Am I seriously supposed to get hyped for a giant rock in the middle of nowhere?

[CrownySuccubus]

I guarantee you that the majority of Final Fantasy players will gravitate more towards a game set in a European or Far Eastern region than they would an Australian, New World, or African one. Defy those tastes and let's see how far the Final Fantasy name brand will carry such a game, because goodness knows they'd never go near it without it.

SOURCE: "Trust me bro".

Am I seriously supposed to get hyped for a giant rock in the middle of nowhere?

Oh, that's the ONLY thing to see in Australia? My mistake. These must be from Narnia, then:





When we expand to the greater Oceania region, we also get:

[Theodric]

What on earth about the wastelands of Australia are going to make people go, "Woah! I want to go there!" Like the skyscrapers of Insomnia or the towers of Ishgard invoked?

A good looking surfer with a design similar to Snow Villiers complete with an Australian accent?

I guess we could replace 'surfer' with 'blitzballer' to give it a more Final Fantasy feel.

[aveyond-dreams]

A good looking surfer with a design similar to Snow Villiers complete with an Australian accent?

Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy! Admittedly however, I would be more willing to welcome the advances of an athletic man with more masculine tendencies than I would be of someone like G'raha Tia and his kindergarten schoolgirl haircut. Be sure to include the likes of characters similar to Vanille as well please, she and Snow were both my favorites in FFXIII.

[Theodric]

Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy! Admittedly however, I would be more willing to welcome the advances of an athletic man with more masculine tendencies than I would be of someone like G'raha Tia and his kindergarten schoolgirl haircut. Be sure to include the likes of characters similar to Vanille as well please, she and Snow were both my favorites in FFXIII.

Yeah, I'd like more conventionally attractive male characters to interact with as well. For as much as some like to pretend as if JRPG's default to mostly androgynous looking men, I disagree since they're usually balanced out by the presence of a bunch of classically handsome and ruggedly handsome guys.

Thancred and Estinien are decent but I'd like someone designed along the lines of Hien as a permanent addition to the main cast and not just hidden away in side quests.

I'm glad that the character models are getting a new coat of paint. If they manage to fix the Highlander models and allow me to finally play a conventionally attractive male character who is muscular and tall then I'll be very happy.

There's always been something 'off' to me about many of the design decisions for the likes of G'raha. His voice doesn't match his features or mannerisms at all.

[Brinne]

It's me. I will happily take up the mantle of being part of the masses of very scary "twitter/tumblr fandom" that threatens to take away aveyond-dream's precious castles and their conviction that they can definitively speak for the Final Fantasy fandom, forever. I mean, I love Zenos, I occasionally go to Twitter, and I would be more than happy to explore an Australia or Africa-themed expansion. Truly I qualify as the stuff of nightmares.

Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy!

Goodness, you are upset about that one piece of criticism of your extremely long 7.0 fanfiction, aren't you?

[tokinokanatae]

I guarantee you that the majority of Final Fantasy players will gravitate more towards a game set in a European or Far Eastern region than they would an Australian, New World, or African one. Defy those tastes and let's see how far the Final Fantasy name brand will carry such a game, because goodness knows they'd never go near it without it.

Actually, I don't think most FFXIV players are as obsessed with locales as you are--and I say that as someone that likes locales very much. Locales are something most players accept passively. They just want it to look cool, and their range of cool isn't as limited as yours is. No one in chat for the LL watched the trailer and said, "a jungle dungeon?? Wow, cancelling my sub right now."

Again, you've already put forth your ideal vision for 7.0. It's not a 300 page thread full of wonder and excitement as you would expect if you truly have the pulse of what the fanbase wants as much as you claim. It seems more to me like your raging about "safaris" and "jungles" and "tumblr" are less about objective fact and more about your fears that the fanbase doesn't actually agree with you at all--and are more diverse than you'd like. A worry that the opinions of others count just as much in the eyes of the devs as yours.

Am I seriously supposed to get hyped for a giant rock in the middle of nowhere?

Now it's just sad that you would see scenery like that and think it has no place in the game. Your desperation to pretend natural beauty has only one form grows more and more pathetic the more you post about it.

[aveyond-dreams]

Actually, I don't think most FFXIV players are as obsessed with locales as you are--and I say that as someone that likes locales very much. Locales are something most players accept passively. They just want it to look cool, and their range of cool isn't as limited as yours is. No one in chat for the LL watched the trailer and said, "a jungle dungeon?? Wow, cancelling my sub right now."

Again, you've already put forth your ideal vision for 7.0. It's not a 300 page thread full of wonder and excitement as you would expect if you truly have the pulse of what the fanbase wants as much as you claim. It seems more to me like your raging about "safaris" and "jungles" and "tumblr" are less about objective fact and more about your fears that the fanbase doesn't actually agree with you at all--and are more diverse than you'd like. A worry that the opinions of others count just as much in the eyes of the devs as yours.

Can't say I'm particularly worried considering the fact that Creative Business Unit III is quite literally making the next mainline FF game tailored around my tastes. Seems my "vision" will be realized there as what will probably be the best mainline FF experience since the days of FFXII.

You are also mistaking a level vs an entire geographic area. No one minds if a level or dungeon deviates from the norm. What I mind and take great issue with is having my time wasted like the 3 zones of Gyr Abania and I do not want a repeat of that situation, not with how many of my favourite elements have been stripped from the plot and how bland the remaining characters are.

Additional edit because I'm not in the mood to waste one of my daily posts specifically for your later comment on this page = An empire with complex characters like Varis etc will always be more interesting than plushie Scions doing nothing in the middle of nowhere. The fluff and beach-episode locations belong on twitter for role players to comission fanart of, not for it to take up valuable screentime.

images

I see a generic tropical beach, a mansion someone made the decision to paint yellow for some reason, and a place full of fog that I cannot tell whether I am looking at Australia or some misty part of the UK.

If this is all you can bring out to market your Australia expansion you will have to do a better job to get me interested. Your rock and beach are not going to win against this when it comes to Final Fantasy fans. And that is why this is being made into a full-fledged Final Fantasy game and not whatever it is you're jumping through hoops to justify:

[CrownySuccubus]

I see a generic tropical beach, a mansion someone made the decision to paint yellow for some reason, and a place full of fog that I cannot tell whether I am looking at Australia or some misty part of the UK.

If this is all you can bring out to market your Australia expansion you will have to do a better job to get me interested. Your rock and beach are not going to win against this when it comes to Final Fantasy fans. And that is why this is being made into a full-fledged Final Fantasy game and not whatever it is you're jumping through hoops to justify:

Nice goalposts moving. You said you wanted to know why gamers would look at Australian locales and wish they could go there, using a big rock which exists in real Aus.

Then, I showed you very picturesque beaches and popular locales which, in also exist in real Aus and Oceania as examples that...yes, there are places which people actually like to go see.

So then, you move the goalposts by showing a fantasy mountain with a castle which does not exist in real life. If you were being honest, you should have shown a picture of just that big gray rock and nothing built on it.

But, if you want proof of concept ideas for a fantasy Australia/Oceania using similar locales that I showed, here you are:





You know Rivendell, from Lord of the Rings films? Yeah. Its locale was based on, and filmed in, New Zealand.

I mean, hell, if you think tropical beaches and whatnot can't make for beautiful castles and towering landmarks, I have to assume you've never been to Eulmore or Limsa Lominsa.

[aveyond-dreams]

continued words

Thank you for using a film set whose appearance is entirely based on medieval Europe. You've just defeated your own argument. As far as I'm concerned my conversation with you is over and I've won. For the sake of keeping the thread on topic you have since been added to my ignore list, ending this tangent here and now.

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

Agreed, still it was admittedly fun getting them to end up where they did with that last post, but anyway. At the moment I still can't feel like I can look back on Endwalker and take the later parts of my adventure seriously. The farewell and sendoff we gave the scions at the end would have been the perfect moment for them to retire.

If after such a pivotal expansion like Endwalker our main party members are still propped up alone by their actions from far too many years ago, what reason do I have to believe that something will happen to make them evolve in the coming patches? With how limited patch MSQ is, I struggle to believe we will see any upgrades to their otherwise stagnant selves, if not suffer more downgrades in the name of fanservice:



Does anyone else remember this guy? You know, the cool sage who could actually be taken seriously as a character? Or the days when our antagonists connected with us on levels far deeper than nebulous throwaway concepts like "ohh hope vs despair struggle" with a party that fundamentally appears unaffected by any strife or despair.

Moving into these patches it doesn't seem like we will be dealing with any one clear antagonist for the time being, but then I reread one of Lauront's earlier comments and recognized the mages in the trailer as the lambs of Dalamud, a cult from so early in ARR that I had completely forgotten about at this point. I don't know much of their faith, but I remember the voidsent they called forth. The next major antagonists being associated with the void is something I am 100% for, and I believe there is great opportunity for future antagonsist along the lines of Cylva to shine.

Like Emet-Selch, I imagine they would want to find a way to restore the world they lost. But if voidsent are perpetually aether starved, could their society not be almost "vampiric" with more humanoid-looking voidsent lying in wait in unexplored parts of the 13th? I apologize in advance for referencing WoW, but it does seem that the vampire faction along with its leader that they introduced in Shadowlands was well received among their playerbase, and I believe that a similar group of highly intelligent and cunning creatures would be an excellent choice for our major antagonists.

They could be monstrous on the inside, but still walk among people as human beings and provide that human connection we had with Emet-Selch, but rather than "bringing back our God and restoring our people," I imagine the conflict could lean more towards, "I will consume your people in order to save my own, and in so doing reclaim the humanity/paradise I had lost."



Alternatively, we could also have encounters with characters with motivations similar to Ardyn who lie closer to the heart of events on the 13th, what if at the cause of it all there was a betrayal so cruel as the one he suffered in FFXV? I cannot be the only one who finished that game feeling awful for the man, who was later revealed to have been a far more noble individual than the first king of Lucis. A well-put together revenge story like his would be a joy to experience again, bonus points if they don't end up transforming into a total monstrosity in the final battle in order to keep an emphasis on the fact that our enemy is a *Person* who hoped, dreamed, and lived. All in all, it would inject some much needed magic into the world that now finds itself lacking in wake of the demise of Hyadelyn and Zodiark.

Neither Ardyn nor Emet-Selch were created so blatantly as a vehicle to preach to us in the way Hermes was, that is the strength that lies in these characters being able to naturally impart their lessons onto people. Also, if your lead writers are already aware and thinking to themselves, "Hmm, this type of character will probably not resonate with people because the message associated with him is being delivered in too blunt of a way, despite my personal affection towards him," possibly, just possibly listen. I too would be shocked if my boss told me I had to somehow manage to justify the convoluted later portions of Endwalker, I cannot imagine the stress that she must have experienced knowing being forced to add in time travel and memory wiping devices would make for a pretty unstable foundation.