What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

I'm with Kizuya, I think we're just going to get a lot of happy fluff nonsense and I wouldn't be surprised if the "secret" dungeon is just something silly that won't matter for anything.

[Brinne]

I think the sentiments about Venat are relatively common but a lot of people don't feel as though it's a make or break thing, myself included. It's not impossible to like her a lot and think her actions were genocidal; just look at how much people liked Emet even before EW (although I personally like a lot of characters much more than her).

I still think Venat, on her own, could legitimately be a really fun and interesting character; when I'm discussing her without the albatross of "why did the story handle her the way it did?", I actually find myself becoming strangely fond of her and her strange, strange thought processes, absolute self-assurance, and willingness to resort to extreme measures and pile up bodies in the name of her beliefs--to the point that if I had the choice, I probably wouldn't fundamentally change her, honestly. She's sort of fascinating.

The problem has always been the narrative's apologism, insisting we see her as good and benevolent, and therefore narratively minimizing the effects on her victims and the weight of her actions. Which is where we get the actually infuriating stuff, re: "alas, the Ancients were the architects of their own demise because they didn't suffer enough!" (They were murdered by your creator, actually, but, okay.)

If she was just left to be what she is, a painfully self-righteous, clever, and charismatic ideologue with torrents of blood on her hands, it'd be fine. But Hydaelyn has been so wrapped up in being a supportive figure to the WoL, I assume the devs were worried about doing that in fear of leaving a bad taste in players' mouths about being used as a tool in her plans for the past ten years.

[aveyond-dreams]

We’re gonna get some fluff about thanking all of the super nice npcs that helped us in EW and give them muffins and throw a super kawaii party for them. Then we’re gonna go to sharlayan and have a small tidbit quest where we get to watch Yshtola talk to some of the teachers there and just be absolutely smarter than any of them and have a funny haha moment where they get annoyed with her and she gets super smug. Then we’re gonna get some urgent news about some dragons or garleans and the dungeons will be an early visit to corvos or meracydia and the blasphemy problem will be completely solved with barely a mention. Oh and Graha at some point will start getting all sparkly eyed and worshipping us and Estinien and doing his uwu adorable ear wiggle when he gets excited.

This describes the likeliest sequence of events for the 6.1 MSQ. Ideally, I would have liked to be introduced to our new main party members this patch in order to replace some of the more stagnant scions. I would have liked to go into 7.0 with a party composed of the spiritual successors to Venat, Hades, and Hythlodaeus and kept as few scions along as possible.

We could have used this interlude leading up to 7.0 to get to know our new cast members in "campfire-after-the-battle" scenes as opposed to slice of life college scenes in Sharlayan. We could visit the now retired scions and check up on them as the world starts showing signs of the next major threat, likely the void or some unforseen side effect of leaving the world bereft of its two main gods.

A priority for the writing would be to ensure that new cast members contrast with each other well through various means, from hair color to personality and homeland. Another important point would be to logically re-establish dominant supernatural forces in the world to contend with later on, which would eventually converge upon the main setting of 7.0 and drive the conflict there.

The interlude should also highlight the most visually distinct of FFXIV's zones, like the Azim Steppe, Dravanian Forelands, and deal with Garlemald in such a way that the country is put on a road to recovery that doesn't end in it becoming another Ishgard/Ala Mhigo-like republic. A new emperor or even empress would be crowned, and even one of the new main party members could be Garlean.

Leading into 7.0 we would go on to a location rich in high fantasy and European aesthetics, for a grounded adventure on the scale of Heavensward. Future antagonists would lean towards "human" and have reasonable motives like Emet-Selch, Ardyn, etc. Direct moralizing would be kept to an absolute minimum, with in-game actions speaking and getting through to people in ways that endless speeches never could.

[NanaWiloh]

New character will be introduced in 6.1 and sounds like the scions will be doing their own thing for a while. Though no clear time frame on how long they will be doing it. Famistu article talked about some info Yoshi p passed their way in a interview. Yoshi also pointed out the scions will not be disappearing.

[FrightfulNight]

The interlude should also highlight the most visually distinct of FFXIV's zones, like the Azim Steppe, Dravanian Forelands, and deal with Garlemald in such a way that the country is put on a road to recovery that doesn't end in it becoming another Ishgard/Ala Mhigo-like republic. A new emperor or even empress would be crowned, and even one of the new main party members could be Garlean.

Leading into 7.0 we would go on to a location rich in high fantasy and European aesthetics, for a grounded adventure on the scale of Heavensward. Future antagonists would lean towards "human" and have reasonable motives like Emet-Selch, Ardyn, etc. Direct moralizing would be kept to an absolute minimum, with in-game actions speaking and getting through to people in ways that endless speeches never could.

And what better location for a high fantasy European Aesthetic then Ilsabard. You will certainly not get it with Meracydia or the New World and it is to soon to visit another shard, we just got back and need to explore more of the source. I have talked about three zones they could do for this before but let me do it in more detail.

I mentioned a zone inspired by Germany, Austria and Switzerland (something hinted at existing with the Bergsteiger's and Dirndl's Attires) which visually could play a role similar to 1.0 Ishgard now that it is all frozen with Windmills, rolling green valleys, fields of flowers, distant snowcapped mountains, and a very Studio Ghibli inspired visual Aesthetic.

The Scandinavian inspired zone i mentioned could have fjords, Viking longhouses, snowy forests, Aurora's in the sky at night, etc. For inspiration look to Skyrim, the recent God of War or even the Witcher 3.

The final zone I mentioned was one based off of Romania and they could just go all out with this one. I would put Gothic Garlean architecture inspired by the Royal palace before it was destroyed perhaps intermelled with more traditional Gothic architecture. For inspirations with this zone Obviously look to Castlevania and maybe Bloodbourne as well.

They could also add more Mediterranean inspired zones like maybe Werlyt Proper or the long hinted at Corvos. If they want to mix things up they can even throw in a desert zone ruins of the Caspian Sea in Metro Exodus.

I am not saying these zones should be complete one for one copies of real world cultures and nations but instead should build off of them like Thravnir.

This would also allow further Garlean Development to be salvaged after their expansion got gutted to rush the finale.

[CrownySuccubus]

The difference between the two is Emet did everything he did for his people. Venat did the opposite, she did what she did because she lost hope in her people. Honestly i think a lot of the popularity surrounding her just revolves around her being a “waifu.” It would follow the trend for what Yshtola’s popularity used to be.

As I said a while back, I genuinely liked Venat as a character -- she was cool, she was charismatic, and she was interesting to talk to. Her looking gorgeous in that outfit as Hydaelyn certainly didn't hurt, but that definitely wouldn't have saved her if I didn't have other reasons to like her. I don't hate her for what she did, either -- I hate the story for making it the "correct" choice. Venat was objectively right, based on the principles of how the story's universe works. However, if she brought that crappy logic into the real world, I'd look at her like she was a crazy person.

[KizuyaKatogami]

As I said a while back, I genuinely liked Venat as a character -- she was cool, she was charismatic, and she was interesting to talk to. Her looking gorgeous in that outfit as Hydaelyn certainly didn't hurt, but that definitely wouldn't have saved her if I didn't have other reasons to like her. I don't hate her for what she did, either -- I hate the story for making it the "correct" choice. Venat was objectively right, based on the principles of how the story's universe works. However, if she brought that crappy logic into the real world, I'd look at her like she was a crazy person.

Mmmm even with the story’s universe though she isn’t objectively right. That’s the problem with the story, it tries to paint that she’s objectively right, but there’s so much that points to that being incorrect. I think the biggest thing that makes me dislike her is how much of a hypocrite she is. She preaches constantly the entire game about having hope, never giving up, making the impossible possible yet doesn’t apply any of these things to her own people, and effectively gives up on them and murders them all. That’s the biggest thing that makes me dislike her greatly. The fact she’s also a liar and hoards secrets doesn’t help either of course.

[aveyond-dreams]

And what better location for a high fantasy European Aesthetic then Ilsabard. You will certainly not get it with Meracydia or the New World and it is to soon to visit another shard, we just got back and need to explore more of the source. I have talked about three zones they could do for this before but let me do it in more detail.

I mentioned a zone inspired by Germany, Austria and Switzerland (something hinted at existing with the Bergsteiger's and Dirndl's Attires) which visually could play a role similar to 1.0 Ishgard now that it is all frozen with Windmills, rolling green valleys, fields of flowers, distant snowcapped mountains, and a very Studio Ghibli inspired visual Aesthetic.

The Scandinavian inspired zone i mentioned could have fjords, Viking longhouses, snowy forests, Aurora's in the sky at night, etc. For inspiration look to Skyrim, the recent God of War or even the Witcher 3.

The final zone I mentioned was one based off of Romania and they could just go all out with this one. I would put Gothic Garlean architecture inspired by the Royal palace before it was destroyed perhaps intermelled with more traditional Gothic architecture. For inspirations with this zone Obviously look to Castlevania and maybe Bloodbourne as well.

They could also add more Mediterranean inspired zones like maybe Werlyt Proper or the long hinted at Corvos. If they want to mix things up they can even throw in a desert zone ruins of the Caspian Sea in Metro Exodus.

I am not saying these zones should be complete one for one copies of real world cultures and nations but instead should build off of them like Thravnir.

This would also allow further Garlean Development to be salvaged after their expansion got gutted to rush the finale.

I could be easily convinced to purchase an expansion that focuses on zones like the ones you describe here. Corvos and other former imperial territories would be the first logical option for where to place these locations in FFXIV's world, though Meracydia could still be home to similar kingdoms if they take inspiration from FFIX's Mist Continent, which is in a similar geographic location but was not made out to be Australia in that game.

However, I can imagine what the community reaction may be if they did such a thing, with my previous thread outlining a Meracydia expansion revolving around a kingdom roughly analogous to Cornelia or Alexandria being criticized for not having enough "indigenous inspiration" if I remember correctly. There is a massive disconnect between those players and what most FF players seem to gravitate towards in the games they actually purchase.

[CrownySuccubus]

Mmmm even with the story’s universe though she isn’t objectively right. That’s the problem with the story, it tries to paint that she’s objectively right, but there’s so much that points to that being incorrect. I think the biggest thing that makes me dislike her is how much of a hypocrite she is. She preaches constantly the entire game about having hope, never giving up, making the impossible possible yet doesn’t apply any of these things to her own people, and effectively gives up on them and murders them all. That’s the biggest thing that makes me dislike her greatly. The fact she’s also a liar and hoards secrets doesn’t help either of course.

But being a hypocrite =/= being wrong. If a murderer tells you that murder is a crime, they are objectively correct, even if they're a hypocrite.

The rules of the FFXIV universe as of EW is that "paradise = bad, suffering = good", and Venat "had to" sunder the world in order to beat Meteion. She also knows, via the story's rules about time travel, that if she follows the exact time loop she was warned of, then the people of the future will become armed with the knowledge of what causes the Final Days. She is, again, correct that if she stays the course, that a person capable of defeating Meteion will appear, with her final test being to defeat Hyadaelyn herself.

Again, I don't like that the story bends over backwards to paint this as the objectively correct course to follow, but it does.

I could be easily convinced to purchase an expansion that focuses on zones like the ones you describe here. Corvos and other former imperial territories would be the first logical option for where to place these locations in FFXIV's world, though Meracydia could still be home to similar kingdoms if they take inspiration from FFIX's Mist Continent, which is in a similar geographic location but was not made out to be Australia in that game.

However, I can imagine what the community reaction may be if they did such a thing, with my previous thread outlining a Meracydia expansion revolving around a kingdom roughly analogous to Cornelia or Alexandria being criticized for not having enough "indigenous inspiration" if I remember correctly. There is a massive disconnect between those players and what most FF players seem to gravitate towards in the games they actually purchase.

Again, what basis are you using to state what "most FF players" want? You keep trying to argue that the majority of FF players hold your viewpoint, with nothing to back it up.

And even IF that were correct, creators shouldn't have to pander to the most common denominator. That is the easiest way to stifle creativity.

[NanaWiloh]

As I said a while back, I genuinely liked Venat as a character -- she was cool, she was charismatic, and she was interesting to talk to. Her looking gorgeous in that outfit as Hydaelyn certainly didn't hurt, but that definitely wouldn't have saved her if I didn't have other reasons to like her. I don't hate her for what she did, either -- I hate the story for making it the "correct" choice. Venat was objectively right, based on the principles of how the story's universe works. However, if she brought that crappy logic into the real world, I'd look at her like she was a crazy person.

There are people like venat in the real world
We call them politicians.