"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Jijifli]

But if the people run to you to tackle you... just... aoe. You're supposed to Aoe anyways...

This this this this this.

[Pells]

You bring them to me, I'll take them. You don't bring them to me I'll just watch munching on my snack of choice at the time watching your HP drop to 0 because you couldn't wait a few bloody seconds.

Positioning is a tank's job. If you're expecting them to bring their adds to the aoe party, then you're expecting them to follow 'you pull you tank'.


This whole equating it to 'I'll stop tanking now' is some weird strawman that I only hear when people make arguments against the 'you pull you tank' sentiment.

Y'know the beauty of this mentality? Tanks are not necessary to complete dungeons. A group can just as easily kick the baby-raging tank and have one of the DPS take over while they wait for the spot to be filled again. Even tankbusters won't do enough damage to one-shot most DPS. It's mostly just a question of whether or not the healer wants to deal with keeping a DPS alive while they get stomped into the ground.

The tank class isn't needed in these runs, but someone still has to tank. Or do you have everybody running around like headless chickens trying to kite their individual mobs?


Who's pulling in these tankless runs anyway? Do they end up tanking? Positioning is part of tanking: Do they gather the mobs in a ball so you can absolutely demolish them? That is, are they following 'you pull you tank' after all?

[24spencer]

I mean by definition yes in a run with no tank you have to have someone aggro the mobs at some point, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make though

moot point because even at 3 targets you should be aoeing and there's no real reason for dps to be running around so they can just stand vaguely near each other and press aoe buttons lol, the mobs will group themselves up quite naturally then regardless who has aggro

there is no real argument for "not wall 2 wall" unless you're in, like, stone vigil with 3 sprouts, or aurum vale where half the mobs are optional. If you're trying to force people into singlepull runs of Expert roulette that approaches borderline trolling from the level of laziness. Wall 2 Walling with current healer/tank kits boils down to pressing your aoe damage and cycling like 3 cooldowns. The requirement from a gameplay standpoint is that you know where the buff bar is on your HUD so you can press a new cooldown when the last one runs out.

[Jijifli]

Positioning is a tank's job. If you're expecting them to bring their adds to the aoe party, then you're expecting them to follow 'you pull you tank'.

The problem is if they're running around with 3-4+ mobs willy nilly, it's incredibly slow at best, or impossible at worst, to get them back. Enemy hitbox while in motion is really weird. It's much easier, for both, to just bring it over to the tank if they get it. Heck in the case of like half the joblist, they'd be doing it anyways if they wanted to aoe themself.

[HisShadowX]

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

Provided they have the common courtesy of dragging them to the tank, then sure there's no excuse.

Exactly this. Bring them to me let me AOE them also remember people many people on this game even playing on the PC play using a controller. Simply using Provoke is not as easy as you think. Cycling using a controller takes time and can cause problems as your trying to do different things. If you want to pull bring it to the tank if for some reason the tank was not able to pull on mob and you got the mob on you don't run in circles away from the mob run to the tank.

As a tank I have to remember I can't always simply redirect everyone to come get that one mob on the DPS as I can turn the mob and cause the Healer to wipe.

[BaconBits]

I have escaped from baby jail to once again say YPYT is a coward's mindset.

[Skiros]

It feels like I haven't missed a single day of the forums from when I left it back in 2021.

Not surprising, considering it takes a special sort of player to even want to stay on the forums (including me).

[Lunalepsy]

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

This mentality was used to keep other roles in check, but I don't think it's needed anymore.

[Dzian]

Thank you.

These forums are terrible and do not reflect the FFXIV community.

Actually they do with a decent degree of accuracy. It's been proven time and time again, that's why people dont really throw around the old buzz words of "vocal minority" and such anymore becuase they've been proven to be bs.

People make the mistake of counting forum users as one sub set of the games player base and that's innacurate. The forum users consist of playrs from almost every subset you can imagine. Male, Female, Non Binary, Old, Young, Crafters, Gatherers, Casual players, Hardcore raiders, Speed runners, Role Players, Weekend warriors you name a sub set and there will be users of the forum who represent it.

What this does is it actually makes the forums a reasonably accurate representation of the playerbase as a whole.. Dissmissing the forums as a singular subset would be a big error and a common mistake.

A real world comparisson could be if I went to stand outside a Wallmart store and surveyed 1,000 customers about a chocolate bar... If the comon opionion opinion was it was flavorless you wouldn't dismiss that as just a Wallmart customers opinion. nor would you call it a "vocal minority" because the millions of people who didn't take the survey or dont shop at Wallmart must think the chocolate bar is amazing.

Companies have spent billions on consumer research and the results of all that rresearch often says that for every person that complains there's 25 people that share the same complaint but remain silent about it.

“Only 1 out of 26 unhappy customers complain. The rest churn. A lesson here is that companies should not view absence of feedback as a sign of satisfaction. The true enemy is indifference.”

Source

That last part is important and a mistake many people make. Silence or lack of feedback does not mean satisfaction or happiness. neither does participation..

You could take healers in XIV as an example. Lots of complaints Lots of silent people, Lots of people still playing healers...
You can not assume that all the people playing healer or are silent think the job is great..
the evidence shows that's just not true. Many will play the job simply because its needed by there groups or raid statics, Many just for faster queues on roulettes for tomes, other for completion sake. get every job to 90. many reasons.

So to dismiss the forums as an innacurate representation of the general playerbase is a huge mistake and one that many companies and games developers have learnt the hard way, All the consumer research proves that it's more likely to be accurate than not becuase forum users aren't a single subset.
It's the reason terms like "vocal minority" have died and no one with any sense uses them anymore.

[MiaShino]

If you are gonna pull stuffs at the least use arms length. Mmmm free mitigation!

Extra style points if you thunderclap back to me or do the swanky dragoon backflip/jump trick. Nothing gets my commendation faster! That deeps is free mitigation for you on that pull especially if sprint has run out. Icarus plus rescue is also super fricken fun! Zooooop free engage for the tank and Toxicon for Mia! Bards getting early dot uptime, Samurai building buffs early, reaper getting out that smexy debuff you just love to see it.