Endwalker vs shadowbringers story, which did you enjoy more and why? (spoilers)

[KageTokage]

Even the 6.1 teaser site betrays that despite the hint of a break from them for a while we're going right back to dealing with them once again. So in other words, this 'new story' seems set to leave very little room for new faces.

I have a hunch that they're going to end up finding excuses to keep the Scions around us mostly for trust-related reasons instead of finding alternative established NPCs to fill the roles that they once occupied.

At minimum, we need a healer, tank, and two DPS present at all times, so while they don't necessarily need to bring in all of them, I'm kind of expecting G'raha to be present for the whole of this new story simply because having an all-rounder like him minimizes the number of other Scions who'd also need to be present to keep all the bases covered.

I'm predicting him, Estinien, and Y'shtola (With the ability to flex as a healer) as the ones present for whatever MSQ dungeon we get this go-around.

[Iscah]

At minimum, we need a healer, tank, and two DPS present at all times, so while they don't necessarily need to bring in all of them, I'm kind of expecting G'raha to be present for the whole of this new story simply because having an all-rounder like him minimizes the number of other Scions who'd also need to be present to keep all the bases covered.

I don't think so necessarily. Ktisis has shown that the minimum is three characters, as long as those characters can cover any arrangement of roles.

For a plot where we're working with Thancred and Urianger, for example, we just need one extra person who can be a pure DPS, because the other two both have a DPS job they could switch to if you take their place as tank/healer.

For Alphinaud and Alisaie working in Garlemald (though I'm not sure we'd have another dungeon there) we would probably get Jullus or perhaps Lucia as tank/DPS, Alph as healer/DPS, even Alisaie could potentially get pushed into tanking since we've seen her fight with a PLD-style sword before.

[IdowhatIwant]

I honestly couldn't give a damn about Papalymo. I felt he was a red shirt straight from the get go.

I have no idea what that means, but I wish Tataru died instead. I have wanted Tataru to die since ARR, and now we are getting another quest line with her. I hope we take her to the ocean and drown her.

[kpxmanifesto]

I have no idea what that means, but I wish Tataru died instead. I have wanted Tataru to die since ARR, and now we are getting another quest line with her. I hope we take her to the ocean and drown her.

I'm with you on that. Tataru absolutely needs to die.

A red shirt is terminology for an expendable character. It comes from Star Trek and is supposed to represent a character who dies shortly after being introduced.

[Lyth]

It's interesting that so many of the same people who want to see more Scion deaths also demanded that the dev team bring back the Ancients or retcon their fate using time travel during the Live Letter questions. Their stories were bittersweet, and yet people massively struggled to accept fact that they weren't coming back. It's easy to ask for character deaths when you're not attached to the character in question. But that's the exact opposite reason why writers kill off a character. They do it specifically to hit you where it hurts. And it looks like they did. Some of the most popular characters in this game are dead and not coming back.

The Warcraft expat background is an interesting insight. I wonder if a lot of you are expecting to find 'factions' in this game and are simply searching for an Alliance vs. Horde surrogate to channel your energies into? Yet the plotline of this game is the antithesis of factionalism. The dragons and the Ishgardians find accord. Omega and the Omicrons find new purpose that doesn't involve war. We are the descendants of the ex-Ascians and their leader gives us his blessing to inherit their legacy. Enemies are spared to become tomorrow's friends. There is no second faction. Just people learning to live together.

There was never a need to kill off characters tit-for-tat, faction for faction. And even Warcraft now wants to scrap its own faction system, because it unnecessarily fragments the playerbase.

[Kisshu]

Easily Shadowbringers for me.

To me, Endwalker has problems with what it wants. From the opening movie the "End of the world" fills near everything, but when we get down to it, it's basicly "run around Rads talking to people, half a zone trying to save a damn family, a dungeon and finally an instance" after that we move to Elpis and all the end of the world and blasphemies is not really touched again.

For the combat role-quests, in SHB they were used to flesh out characters we knew little about and gave some backstory while being tied to the main story, while in EW they felt much more like side stories more focused on the NPCs than the actual blasphemy we were hunting.

Not to mention that entering the final dungeon to till completing the final trial takes so much from Shadowbringer. Villain invites us into a memory and narrates it, showing the fall of civilizations/Amaurot, at the end the villain shows up and picks off the Scions with spells, forcing the WoL to fight it with WoLs from across the shards. Villian does several moves that are near copies from the Hades fight (mid-line and sides with same tells, flailing around in last phase).

[ReynTime]

I honestly couldn't give a damn about Papalymo. I felt he was a red shirt straight from the get go.

Papalymo had a great chemistry with Yda before 2.0, and he played some role that the writing decided to make redundant by making Y'shtola more and more of an all knowing Mary Sue.
He only became a red shirt because the writers decided to make him one. Can't make merchandise off a pompous lalafel but definitely can make creepy eyed expensive dolls out of hot catgirl void of defects.

[Larirawiel]

Red shirt example:




And the biggest red shirt for me was Tesleen.


Cheers

[kpxmanifesto]

Easily Shadowbringers for me.
To me, Endwalker has problems with what it wants. From the opening movie the "End of the world" fills near everything, but when we get down to it, it's basicly "run around Rads talking to people, half a zone trying to save a damn family, a dungeon and finally an instance" after that we move to Elpis and all the end of the world and blasphemies is not really touched again.

It felt strange for sure. Another example is huge numbers of people are dying in Thavnair and then suddenly after that we're on the moon playing with the rabbits. EW's issues with pacing are very apparent.

[KizuyaKatogami]

It's interesting that so many of the same people who want to see more Scion deaths also demanded that the dev team bring back the Ancients or retcon their fate using time travel during the Live Letter questions. Their stories were bittersweet, and yet people massively struggled to accept fact that they weren't coming back. It's easy to ask for character deaths when you're not attached to the character in question. But that's the exact opposite reason why writers kill off a character. They do it specifically to hit you where it hurts. And it looks like they did. Some of the most popular characters in this game are dead and not coming back.

The Warcraft expat background is an interesting insight. I wonder if a lot of you are expecting to find 'factions' in this game and are simply searching for an Alliance vs. Horde surrogate to channel your energies into? Yet the plotline of this game is the antithesis of factionalism. The dragons and the Ishgardians find accord. Omega and the Omicrons find new purpose that doesn't involve war. We are the descendants of the ex-Ascians and their leader gives us his blessing to inherit their legacy. Enemies are spared to become tomorrow's friends. There is no second faction. Just people learning to live together.

There was never a need to kill off characters tit-for-tat, faction for faction. And even Warcraft now wants to scrap its own faction system, because it unnecessarily fragments the playerbase.

I think the difference here is the ancients have had to suffer far more than the scions ever have. Why is it always only the antagonists that have to undergo such pain and suffering? Always being faced with transforming into hideous monsters or watching their loved ones die etc. The main cast has been essentially immune to all of this for quite some time now. I think at this point it’s a matter of well, if they’re willing to go against their own themes and contradict them for the sake of keeping the scions alive, might as well do the same for the ancients too then, especially when one side of it is just due to community pandering.