Endwalker vs shadowbringers story, which did you enjoy more and why? (spoilers)

[KizuyaKatogami]

You are talking to the wrong audience. I have no problem with a darker storyline. I just do not expect it to happen, given the storylines I've experienced over the last 8 years. The author/creator is the one who has the ultimate decision in this.

One may express displeasure to other readers when an author/creator decides not to go as dark as you might desire, but realize that there are plenty of other readers who are happy with the results. Do not call out the author/creator as pandering because you didn't get the story you wanted rather than the story the author/creator wrote.

Again, there were consequences in the current storyline, just not the ones you were expecting or might personally desire.

Could you point out some of the consequences for the main cast in Endwalker that doesn’t involve minor or nameless npcs?

[kpxmanifesto]

You assume that not going darker is pandering.

How is it not pandering? This game panders to its audience so much. Keeping most of the Scions alive, Zenos always coming back, Emet-Selch, etc.

[kpxmanifesto]

Papalymo died after him.

I honestly couldn't give a damn about Papalymo. I felt he was a red shirt straight from the get go.

[DPZ2]

Could you point out some of the consequences for the main cast in Endwalker that doesn’t involve minor or nameless npcs?

Can you point out why consequences have to result in the death of any of the main cast in Endwalker?

There was one member of the Fellowship of the Ring who died, despite the fact that it was a lengthy trilogy. Tolkien didn't think it necessary to kill off anyone else in that party. (Denethor would be seen as a minor NPC. Gandalf pulled the Y'shtola card). This game has had two Scions depart the mortal coil.

Is it possible that commenters here believe this game should be similar to that Game of Thrones video series, where everybody of importance dies or has a tragic ending? What other truly dark MMOs do you enjoy where major characters end up dead?

[Genz]

endwalker was funnier, trying too hard to be serious.

[SugarPuff]

I can't think of any examples of a story ending with the world getting destroyed despite the heroes' attempts to save it. I wouldn't ever anticipate it to happen unless there's some kind of specific foreshadowing going on within the individual story.

A stand-alone story still has narrative rules. It still creates a world and it's still a tragic thing if that world gets destroyed - for the people within the story if not for the reader, but quite possibly for the reader as well. Unless you can write a convincing case for it being a good (or at least narratively enjoyable) thing that the heroes failed and the world got destroyed, people are not likely to find it a satisfying ending.

The average story that starts with a threat to the world will end with the threat being averted by the heroes. That is just how stories work at a basic level. It's not something that the writers of FFXIV have any good reason to subvert even if they wanted to and narratively were free to do so.

I don't entirely disagree, the average story will go that way, but in the fiction I read it's not always cut and dried. As a big Lovecraft fan, I think there's a case to be made for people enjoying exactly the type of ending that destroys both the world and the characters. However I would never expect that in FFXI partly because it's an entirely different genre and obviously the WOL isn't going to die at the end, either.

Sometimes I'm surprised by an author's choice to tear everything down, like in Needful Things, and it's always a possibility in novels and movies. So, I can't agree that it's just how stories work because the stories I enjoy often have very dark endings. For clarities sake, my criticism isn't that FFXIV can't and won't go that way. It's that in EW the suspense was hinged on the idea that they might, and I actually love the type of story that might....I just also know that it isn't FFXIV.

[kpxmanifesto]

endwalker was funnier, trying too hard to be serious.

For real. Some of the more "emotional" moments in EW had me and some other players eye-rolling if anything.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Can you point out why consequences have to result in the death of any of the main cast in Endwalker?

There was one member of the Fellowship of the Ring who died, despite the fact that it was a lengthy trilogy. Tolkien didn't think it necessary to kill off anyone else in that party. (Denethor would be seen as a minor NPC. Gandalf pulled the Y'shtola card). This game has had two Scions depart the mortal coil.

Is it possible that commenters here believe this game should be similar to that Game of Thrones video series, where everybody of importance dies or has a tragic ending? What other truly dark MMOs do you enjoy where major characters end up dead?

i didnt say it has to be death. It could be injuries,wounds, something like what Flow did. Answer my question though, what are these consequences you're talking about?No one here afaik is asking for mass death, again, that seems like a copout people use when they dont want their beloved characters to be in danger.All people are asking for is for there to be actual consequences on the main casr side, instead of just countless wins with no stakes or consequence. A death can be far more than cheap shock value, and i think the 14 writers are capable of making it more than that, unless you think the writers arent good enough to make that happen. 14 is one of my first mmo's, but if im not mistaken, WoW has had some impacrful character deaths and i believe Cataclysm even altered the world?

[kpxmanifesto]

There was one member of the Fellowship of the Ring who died, despite the fact that it was a lengthy trilogy. Tolkien didn't think it necessary to kill off anyone else in that party. (Denethor would be seen as a minor NPC. Gandalf pulled the Y'shtola card). This game has had two Scions depart the mortal coil.

Is it possible that commenters here believe this game should be similar to that Game of Thrones video series, where everybody of importance dies or has a tragic ending? What other truly dark MMOs do you enjoy where major characters end up dead?

I personally just want them to stop with the fake-out death scenes. C'mon SE, we all know that the Scion's plot armor is miles thick. You guys won't kill em off because you need to sell Thancred and Yshtola action figures. Trying to create even more emotional scenes for the supposed death of important characters just isn't going to work when you know they're going to live.


Hot take: I think Gandalf should've stayed dead, but he was needed to advance the plot later in the trilogy.

[kpxmanifesto]

14 is one of my first mmo's, but if im not mistaken, WoW has had some impacrful character deaths and i believe Cataclysm even altered the world?

Yes, before the horrendous conclusion of wow in the last patch, there were actual meaningful deaths of major characters in wow that Blizz actually did right.