Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Anvaire]

Factually incorrect. If you look over at FF Logs, you can see how many times each class is represented in the raid. Red Mage has 68,233 parses, Summoner has 61,847 parses, Black Mage has 44,808. Summoner is behind Red Mage in every aspect; popularity, damage, utility, etc.

To be honest, i think the popularity statements are dodgy both ways as there is a large proportion of people who do not upload parses and a large proportion of people who do not raid savage.

It true to say it isnt as popular as it used to be in savage and speaking to mutuals it seems to have a mixed impresssion. However I do think that the vast majority of Savage players who play for efficiency wont go with summoner. I raid savage with it and i do get what people say about complexity. But i really dont think you can "face roll" a keyboard or use a single button macro to play it as is often claimed. Frankly, its rigididy is problematic but that brings some (allbeit) small complexity to using it. Though when i say this i only mean in choosing which Arcanum order to use. Sure you can just go with whatever, but i frequently find myself shifting the order up to facilitate shiz.

Going back to the original topic though.

I think the main thing is this:

Design idea - its Summoner feels like an actual summoner with a repoiroir of summons all of which have use, though some are more useful than others.

Design implemation is not good as it it is very basic and too rigid. This is further compounded by the button change implemetation which means that you end up pressing the same button a lot with varying effects. Each summon rotation is not distinct enough and there is nothing to track build for reward (I.e Previously getting 8 WW was a matter of careful execution)

[ASkellington]

I think the main thing is this:

Design idea - its Summoner feels like an actual summoner with a repoiroir of summons all of which have use, though some are more useful than others.

Design implemation is not good as it it is very basic and too rigid. This is further compounded by the button change implemetation which means that you end up pressing the same button a lot with varying effects. Each summon rotation is not distinct enough and there is nothing to track build for reward (I.e Previously getting 8 WW was a matter of careful execution)

This is pretty much my issue with SMN. I was expecting Ifrit/Titan/Garuda having a mini Phoenix/Bahamut phase instead of just... "various flavors of ruin spam".

I don't know how they could give the 3 summons more of that Phoenix/Bahamut feel without either making them clones of the former or bloated, but I think that's what's missing.

[Aikaal]

I'll say. I still prefer Summoner to Red Mage in term of "fun". Red Mage is brain dead to the same degree than Summoner. The problem is Summoner is just awful in raid right now. Damage aside, in occurred so many times that Verraise just saved my group a wipe. It is so reliable and on speed and optimization then I just play Black Mage. Why would I play Summoner?

Summoner is rigid, the swiftcast dps boost is unreliable in progression since you keep it for raises. You can raise once and then it's hard raise. DPS optimization is pretty awkward. The only thing that Summoner is doing good is to delay Phoenix by 2-3 GCD on darkflames because you can solo 2 dark flames on SMN.

The rigid gamerplay is an issue. Searing Light and anything related to Carbuncle is an issue. Hell, if you move you still get awkward delays on your Ahk Morn / Revelation. Carbuncle placement is stupid because it resets at any summon and you can't hold your stuff because its a huge damage loss. We already see it in savage, it'll probably be worst in Dragonsong Refrain.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

I'll say. I still prefer Summoner to Red Mage in term of "fun". Red Mage is brain dead to the same degree than Summoner. The problem is Summoner is just awful in raid right now. Damage aside, in occurred so many times that Verraise just saved my group a wipe. It is so reliable and on speed and optimization then I just play Black Mage. Why would I play Summoner?

Summoner is rigid, the swiftcast dps boost is unreliable in progression since you keep it for raises. You can raise once and then it's hard raise. DPS optimization is pretty awkward. The only thing that Summoner is doing good is to delay Phoenix by 2-3 GCD on darkflames because you can solo 2 dark flames on SMN.

The rigid gamerplay is an issue. Searing Light and anything related to Carbuncle is an issue. Hell, if you move you still get awkward delays on your Ahk Morn / Revelation. Carbuncle placement is stupid because it resets at any summon and you can't hold your stuff because its a huge damage loss. We already see it in savage, it'll probably be worst in Dragonsong Refrain.

I agree with you and feel the same. I've been playing rdm this tier bc of the rigid gameplay of smn and I will be honest I start to hate it. When I started this tier as rdm it felt alright and kinda fun but now Im slowly hating it and to be honest my motivation to raid is slowly dying v.v I will rather be playing rpr this tier anyway but my group already has a rpr and he is protective of the job and dont really want anyone else to play it in the group. Im starting to think about looking for a new group next tier if nothing is done about smn. Either way just a depressing expac for me and wish smn didnt feel like a unfinished job.

[Aikaal]

I agree with you and feel the same. I've been playing rdm this tier bc of the rigid gameplay of smn and I will be honest I start to hate it. When I started this tier as rdm it felt alright and kinda fun but now Im slowly hating it and to be honest my motivation to raid is slowly dying v.v I will rather be playing rpr this tier anyway but my group already has a rpr and he is protective of the job and dont really want anyone else to play it in the group. Im starting to think about looking for a new group next tier if nothing is done about smn. Either way just a depressing expac for me and wish smn didnt feel like a unfinished job.

RPR feels good but I did hear one complain from the reaper in my group. The whole concept is to build a triple Enshroud and 1 death basically kills 1k DPS usually.

RDM is reliable and safe to play. Hell, twice I cleared the door boss with both healer down and I double raised. SMN can't do that.

Caster choices, imho, feel this way.

- RDM - Safe and reliable prog caster that has a brain dead rotation but is still a caster.
- SMN - Safe and not reliable prog caster which induce frustrations in raid (I still like to play it but the frustration > the fun for me) Also, not really a caster anymore and people justify the damage nerf from that.
- BLM - Yoshida's baby. Will always be the top gun. Megumin memes. EXPLOSION. Not prog friendly unless you have someone playing RDM/SMN.

Just saying about... that *mobility is DPS gain* My friend was on Machinist and he moved away from my BLM so he kept my DPS up. His mobility was my Black Mage DPS gain.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

RPR feels good but I did hear one complain from the reaper in my group. The whole concept is to build a triple Enshroud and 1 death basically kills 1k DPS usually.

RDM is reliable and safe to play. Hell, twice I cleared the door boss with both healer down and I double raised. SMN can't do that.

Caster choices, imho, feel this way.

- RDM - Safe and reliable prog caster that has a brain dead rotation but is still a caster.
- SMN - Safe and not reliable prog caster which induce frustrations in raid (I still like to play it but the frustration > the fun for me) Also, not really a caster anymore and people justify the damage nerf from that.
- BLM - Yoshida's baby. Will always be the top gun. Megumin memes. EXPLOSION. Not prog friendly unless you have someone playing RDM/SMN.

Just saying about... that *mobility is DPS gain* My friend was on Machinist and he moved away from my BLM so he kept my DPS up. His mobility was my Black Mage DPS gain.

I don't know about the rpr thing. All I know is the balance says the triple enshroud isnt baseline so I wasnt even thinking about that. Either way I agree with you about the casters.

[Chasingstars]

I just press the buttons and watch the fireworks.

[Zarkovitch]

SMN needs buffs there no way it going be like this forever. If they get buff I want to see them neck to neck against a reaper or a drg not against our boys rdm.

[Grimoire-M]

SMN needs buffs there no way it going be like this forever. If they get buff I want to see them neck to neck against a reaper or a drg not against our boys rdm.

Lol hell no. Keep it in the gutter until they have to be a real caster again they’re the best utility DPS in the game.

I may want it fixed now but the things I want to be fixed are the things that would justify giving it RDM numbers. Summoner should never have had a top 3 DPS slot at any point in the first place.

[CKNovel]

You can't buff SMN unless you buff Ranged as well.

For too long, SQEX decided you couldn't have range, damage and instant cast on a job.
Even then, SMN is already superior to Ranged DPS in both damage and utility, while keeping the same (if not more) mobility.