Looking back at this Yoshi P statement(story spoilers)

[AziraSyuren]

Hyd/Venat is definitionally a supporting protagonist regardless of the morality of her actions.

[KizuyaKatogami]

“You can’t use a character who died in 3.5! Only 4.0 and later!”

“No not those ones! They died in Heavensward despite being up and about for an entire expansion!”

“No not that one! I didn’t like that one!”

I was specifically talking about HW onwards. I literally said people died in HW, goes to show you havent read my posts in here. My point is no one has died for 3 expansions now. Stormblood,Shadowbringers,Endwalker. Thats 3 in case you didnt know. Ardbert being a ghost in Shb doesnt really make him alive, same with minfilia lol. Same with Venat. Your attempt as derailment is very well thought out is all i can say. Either way, there were no deaths or consequences in Endwalker for the main cast, despite it being the expansion with the highest stakes. Its also the expansion where they preach the most about suffering and sacrifice yet none of the main cast has to deal with that and hasnt really had to for multiple expansions now.

Hyd/Venat is definitionally a supporting protagonist regardless of the morality of her actions.

You're certainly welcome to that opinion, personally im not of the same mind. Either way thoug Venat was essentially dead when she sacrificed herself to summon Hydaelyn.

[EaraGrace]

I was specifically talking about HW onwards. I literally said people died in HW, goes to show you havent read my posts in here. My point is no one has died for 3 expansions now. Stormblood,Shadowbringers,Endwalker. Thats 3 in case you didnt know.

Oh yes I’m very aware of the arbitrary limit you placed and how even that doesn’t prove your point.

Ardbert being a ghost in Shb doesnt really make him alive, same with minfilia lol. Same with Venat. Your attempt as derailment is very well thought out is all i can say.

You have no coherent definition of death then if that’s the case. How are Emet or the rest of the Ascians any more alive than Minfilia who literally says she’s like an Ascian in SHB? How is Ardbert not alive in some form when he literally speaks to us? We’re we initially dead when we were sent back in time to Elpis? After all we were pretty close to Ardberts state until Emet gave us some aether. How would you describe a death then?

Either way, there were no deaths or consequences in Endwalker for the main cast, despite it being the expansion with the highest stakes. Its also the expansion where they preach the most about suffering and sacrifice yet none of the main cast has to deal with that and hasnt really had to for multiple expansions now.

And now the motte and bailey. I want this to be clearly spelled out how you shifted the goals. We went from

Either way, its been 3 expansions now, basically 3 games that none of the scions have had severe consequences or death occur to them.

To

Either way, there were no deaths or consequences in Endwalker for the main cast, despite it being the expansion with the highest stakes.

But by all means continue to claim I’m derailing.

You're certainly welcome to that opinion, personally im not of the same mind. Either way thoug Venat was essentially dead when she sacrificed herself to summon Hydaelyn.

Then I guess killing Elidibus in 5.3 wasn’t a big deal! He already was dead after all!

[KizuyaKatogami]

Oh yes I’m very aware of the arbitrary limit you placed and how even that doesn’t prove your point.



You have no coherent definition of death then if that’s the case. How are Emet or the rest of the Ascians any more alive than Minfilia who literally says she’s like an Ascian in SHB? How is Ardbert not alive in some form when he literally speaks to us? We’re we initially dead when we were sent back in time to Elpis? After all we were pretty close to Ardberts state until Emet gave us some aether. How would you describe a death then?




And now the motte and bailey. I want this to be clearly spelled out how you shifted the goals. We went from



To



But by all means continue to claim I’m derailing.




Then I guess killing Elidibus in 5.3 wasn’t a big deal! He already was dead after all!

You're free to continue to believe what stretched definition of death you want to believe. Considering even Yoshi P himself stated that there hadnt been death on the ally side for quite some time at that point and this was between 5,3 and 5.4...im inclined to believe him over an amateur lore enthusiast personally but by all means youre entitled to your opinion.

[EaraGrace]

You're free to continue to believe what stretched definition of death you want to believe. Considering even Yoshi P himself stated that there hadnt been death on the ally side for quite some time at that point and this was between 5,3 and 5.4...im inclined to believe him over an amateur lore enthusiast personally but by all means youre entitled to your opinion.

I asked for your definition.

And I notice you just completely ignored me pointing out you changed your criteria.

To add another question to the ones you won’t answer, explain to me, in your view, how Haurchefant is more a member of the main cast than Minfilia? Yoshi Ps thoughts are always appreciated, but I’m asking for your view.

[Theodric]

Generally if someone proposes to agree to disagree on something then it's typically a sign that they're not terribly interested in engaging in a long winded back and forth discussion. I rather suspect that's doubly the case when the exact same discussion has played out across a great many threads already.

In other words, just because someone posts something that doesn't mean they're obligated to respond to any and every question thrown their way. Especially if they're worded as leading questions.

[Iscah]

They were all technically dead though. Venat sacrificed herself to become Hydaelyn's heart. Hythlodaeus sacrificed himself to Zodiark. We killed Emet in 5.0. This is what I meant by every notable character death in EW was of someone who had already died in the past.

On the one hand, yes that's all true. But at the same time, we went into their world and met them as living people who became friends and allies for at least that short time (though tangled up in everything we knew about them before, making it feel longer) and then we are present to witness the final moments of their souls as they return to the star.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I asked for your definition.

And I notice you just completely ignored me pointing out you changed your criteria.

To add another question to the ones you won’t answer, explain to me, in your view, how Haurchefant is more a member of the main cast than Minfilia? Yoshi Ps thoughts are always appreciated, but I’m asking for your view.

I didn’t change my criteria, it was pretty blatant what i meant, i adjusted it to respond to your post that you made that was a derailment from what my statement was. It’s why i don’t understand your question of haurchefant vs minfilia. Imo minfilia died at the end of ARR, she was nothing more than a lifestream hydaelyn puppet at that point. Either way none of this has to do with my overall thread which is why i’m just saying let’s agree to disagree, i don’t want derailment. I want to discuss why there hasn’t been character death in awhile based on Yoshi P’s comment and see what peoples thoughts are on that, i’m not here to argue who’s more important than who. No one is as important as Elidibus for me anyways so…

[Kozh]

Did you really need to make a new thread about this,this discussion has been going back and forth in What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker? Thread ( https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...y-in-Endwalker )

This is not game of thrones where people are kill left and right

I´m getting a little worried about you and this weird obsession of why none of the main cast die scenario

Oh my god, another obsession with character's dead...

Maybe people will be less "obsessed" with characters death if they manage to write something sad/emotional without resorting to killing a character. The devs themselves have to resort to fake-out deaths for tension and emotional scenes. And just look at how they milk haurchefant death after all these years.

I don't need them to die if they could write something where the protagonist isn't completely victorious in the end, where they weren't given the convenient answer to any moral dillema, where they have the same stakes as any other character (including the antagonists).

They did well when writing Parting Glass. I want more situation like that.

[Iscah]

Imo minfilia died at the end of ARR, she was nothing more than a lifestream hydaelyn puppet at that point.

In 3.2 as the "Word of the Mother" yes, she was functioning as a vessel for Hydaelyn's will, but when we see her again in 3.4 she says that the extra power we gave to Hydaelyn (through bringing together the six crystals) has allowed Her to set Minfilia free again to act as Her emissary to the First.

From that point onward Minfilia is back to being an independent entity as the Oracle of Light, though obviously not quite her human self again. I suppose you can think of the Oracle being to Minfilia as Hydaelyn is to Venat: a shift from mortal to pseudo-goddess but still retaining the same personality and goals.