What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Fiel_Tana]

Now let’s not forget the line that precedes that.

Meteion: What are you?

Emet: Half-faded souls of the dead. Isn’t it painfully obvious?

Emet: Worry not - We haven’t the power to defeat you. Nor is it our duty to do so, not anymore.
So yeah you could actually have Ancients manipulate Dynamis.

You’d just have to kill them first, let their souls degrade in the sea, then have them use the hope fueled Dynamis generated by a group of Sundered and presto! Ancients manipulating dynamis.

Yes, that is possible that may have been the case IF it was shown anywhere in the story that ancients could not interact with dynamis. Otherwise this may also mean something as simple as being half faded souls of the dead makes combat more tricky... not having a body and all. That text can be read many ways and is pretty vague.

I've offered clear examples showing ancients fully capable of interacting with dynamis, my question remains... where does the story prove ancients incapable, or even show this clearly in any way?

[Lauront]

Nowhere. Hermes postulates that they cannot readily interact with it. Not that they cannot do so altogether.

[EaraGrace]

Yes, that is possible that may have been the case IF it was shown anywhere in the story that ancients could not interact with dynamis. Otherwise this may also mean that being half faded souls of the dead makes combat more tricky... not having a body and all. That text can be read many ways and is pretty vague.

I've offered clear examples showing ancients fully capable of interacting with dynamis, my question remains... where does the story prove ancients incapable, or even show this clearly in any way?

Then there’s the scene where only we could hear Meteion etc etc.

I like how you completely disregard the rest of their post which gives other forms of proof they found indirectly manipulate it

Right my point is that they have to reduce their aetheric density to do so, i.e. die and be half faded souls. Yknow, sort of like the Sundered, we’re their weakened souls.

[Lauront]

Almost like they could've done something like that on a selective basis (among other options) rather than having their entire star haphazardly sundered far in excess of what it needed to be (given the aim) because someone grew desperate and had no other method of defeating Zodiark.

[Fiel_Tana]

Then there’s the scene where only we could hear Meteion etc etc.

Yet, he clearly did manipulate dynamis as he is the one that created Metion so that is an obvious falsehood.

That also brings up a new question however...

If we were the only ones to be able to hear Metion and ancients can not readily be manipulated by dynamis... How then does her song of despair cause them any issue?

Seems to me like Hermes is not only an unreliable narrator, he hadn't fully thought things through and therefore is misunderstanding the power of dynamis. Though his entire plan wasn't thought out well, so I lean towards that theory as opposed to him knowingly lying in that scene.

[Lauront]

It's basically not really been explained in any depth, because in SHB it's precipitated by the subterranean sound, which is what is described as first hijacking control over their creation magicks, before their dread impulses are let loose.

Have you not heard? Though yet confined to the lands across the sea, a terrible phenomenon afflicts our star. They are calling it the “Final Days.”
'Tis said it starts suddenly, a cacophonous keening from beneath the earth. The sound distorts all living things within earshot, and wrests from us control of our creation magicks.
Once that happens, all is lost. Fear, pain, despair...every dread impulse is siphoned from our minds and given substance: an eternal fall of fiery rain; an incessant spawning of nightmarish beasts...
None can point to the source of the phenomenon. 'Tis as if the star itself has fallen ill─as if a force inimical to life now festers and spreads.
'Tis only a matter of time until Amaurot, too, resounds to that discordant squall. You should stay with your loved ones, child... Stay with them...

The Watcher reaffirms that this cry is what precipitates it.



Unless they're planning on re-visiting this later, I suspect they're hoping we just roll with it and don't read into it too deeply.

[Fiel_Tana]

Ah thank you for that! I had a vague memory of that scene but couldn't remember the exact details or find my screenshot.

[Lauront]

As a description, it does sit somewhat ill at ease with what we're told in EW. Coupled with how durable the shield even a sundered Zodiark could maintain was against multiple stars' worth of harnessed despair, it suggests to me that when Hermes says it's far weaker than aether, he's not wrong about that much at least. In any case, we're left with a description that says she can affect them but only indirectly, by affecting their magicks; still raises the question of how hijacking control over their creation magicks isn't directly affecting them, in contrast to the below...

Hermes: Harboring high concentrations of aether, we ancients cannot readily manipulate dynamis─nor be manipulated by it. Therefore, rather than our selves, the calamity affected our magicks.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If I may on the front of the subterranean noise: Remember where Pandaemonium is in relation to everything and everywhere else.
We're probably just going to blame Lahabrea again.

I don’t think this makes much sense though. If i’m not mistaken they say the sound began in the east and spread and that it only began when the final days began.

[Fiel_Tana]

As a description, it does sit somewhat ill at ease with what we're told in EW. Coupled with how durable the shield even a sundered Zodiark could maintain was against multiple stars' worth of harnessed despair, it suggests to me that when Hermes says it's far weaker than aether, he's not wrong about that much at least. In any case, we're left with a description that says she can affect them but only indirectly, by affecting their magicks; still raises the question of how hijacking control over their creation magicks isn't directly affecting them, in contrast to the below...

You're right, but it does mostly answer my question how they were affected if it was indirectly through a disruption of the planetary aether flow (which they may use to power their magic?), so thank you! Gives me something to think about

I still haven't seen any proof of the theory that Hydaelyn sundered the world out of necessity because the ancients inability to manipulate dynamis, other than Hermes comment, when in story there are many examples showing otherwise. I suspect that theory is people taking Hermes at his word and running with it.

My spikes do get up when I see someone trying to gaslight someone into believing something unfounded by insulting their intelligence and / or comprehension, which is why I went a bit on the offensive with the post that started this discussion. I wish one of these theories made sense as to why the sundering was required, my brain might stop looping on it then.

@Simple_Barghest I've wondered the same thing and really hope that the Pandaemonium story explains some of the MSQ inconsistencies.