What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kyohei]

Did people complain when Papalymo or Minfillia died? If they did it could be a reason why they aren't making any other Scion die anymore and have perma tempered will/holmgang (use the invul of your choice).
Not talking about Moenbryda because she wasn't technically a Scion, same for Ysayle and Haurchefant.

[Theodric]

I didn't see much of a reaction to Papalymo's death and Minfilia was always a divisive figure to the point that the development team itself made use of her in a parody released on April's Fools one year. So in the end, both deaths were safe and inoffensive options.

It's just weird to me that characters such as Emet-Selch are consistently winning popularity polls but are killed off yet even minor characters amongst the protagonists are clad in ridiculous levels of plot armour.

Then again, the game in general seems to be desperately trying to pretend as if its pushing the various conflicts as a 'clash of ideals' only to then resort to gaslighting later on when people point out that, actually, Emet only resorted to genocide because Venat did so first and forced his hand.

Maybe it's just a sign of the times. Even the shift in localisation seems to be trending towards appeasing Twitter users more than those of us who found the original style of the game to our liking.

[PawPaw]

Was watching a playthrough of EW today and they got to the scene at the end of the moon quests, where everyone is preparing to go back to Eitherys. They're going over their plans and I had to do a double take because all of the Scions universally voice their agreement that they need to inform the world leaders of the coming apocalypse the second they return. That it's up to them to decide how they want to handle letting the public know, whatever is best to avert a panic, but that the first priority was making sure that everyone was aware and had a chance to prepare.

And I just...nodded with mouth agape. Because, yes, of course, this is the natural thought process you'd have when you're not an egotistical sociopath. And yet, someone on the writing team thought to themselves that having another character do the exact opposite for the sake of their own arbitrary "test" when placed in the very same position was an equally reasonable way to deal with an impending calamity and it will never not be astonishing to me that this made it into the game and that they actually tried to make me believe that this was completely logical.

Sorry, it's a tangent and doesn't really link up to the most recent discussion. It just happened and I am still just shaking my head. I think I'm just going to pretend that the game ended when I arrived in Elpis and just leave it at that.

Edit: Imagining an alternate scenario where Y'shtola looks around conspiratorially and says "Guys...what do you think about taking this opportunity to test all of mankind instead of letting them know the truth? They kinda suck anyway, right? All the wars and killing animals for fun and all. What say we just let them figure it out on their own and see how they handle it? They'll probably just be upset if we tell them the world is ending anyway". "Yeah, that sounds fair." "Nod."

[Kyohei]

I didn't see much of a reaction to Papalymo's death and Minfilia was always a divisive figure to the point that the development team itself made use of her in a parody released on April's Fools one year. So in the end, both deaths were safe and inoffensive options.

It's just weird to me that characters such as Emet-Selch are consistently winning popularity polls but are killed off yet even minor characters amongst the protagonists are clad in ridiculous levels of plot armour.

Then again, the game in general seems to be desperately trying to pretend as if its pushing the various conflicts as a 'clash of ideals' only to then resort to gaslighting later on when people point out that, actually, Emet only resorted to genocide because Venat did so first and forced his hand.

Maybe it's just a sign of the times. Even the shift in localisation seems to be trending towards appeasing Twitter users more than those of us who found the original style of the game to our liking.

Oh well, then maybe we can still hope for a turn of event for the Scion and see their adamantium plot armour fall for once.
She was definitely the first aggressor and showed the way to the others. I mean, to begin with if she took the right to sunder, it was only natural they assumed the right to rejoin.

Was watching a playthrough of EW today and they got to the scene at the end of the moon quests, where everyone is preparing to go back to Eitherys. They're going over their plans and I had to do a double take because all of the Scions universally voice their agreement that they need to inform the world leaders of the coming apocalypse the second they return. That it's up to them to decide how they want to handle letting the public know, whatever is best to avert a panic, but that the first priority was making sure that everyone was aware and had a chance to prepare.

And I just...nodded with mouth agape. Because, yes, of course, this is the natural thought process you'd have when you're not an egotistical sociopath. And yet, someone on the writing team thought to themselves that having another character do the exact opposite for the sake of their own arbitrary "test" when placed in the very same position was an equally reasonable way to deal with an impending calamity and it will never not be astonishing to me that this made it into the game and that they actually tried to make me believe that this was completely logical.

Sorry, it's a tangent and doesn't really link up to the most recent discussion. It just happened and I am still just shaking my head. I think I'm just going to pretend that the game ended when I arrived in Elpis and just leave it at that.

Yup, that is called double standards I believe, same for hope. As someone said in a post before, seems like it's not for everyone. Be with the "good" guys and you get everything, otherwise too bad.


Manichean views and stories get stale very quick, I sure wish they'll review their ways with the stories to come.

[Lauront]

It's true the plot has ... issues. But I think that, as far as I'm concerned at least, there's a bit of self-reinforcing bias in how I see Endwalker: it rubbed me the wrong way therefore I am very willing to look for any inconsistency and articulate exactly how and why it bothered me. I would probably be a lot more forgiving of the damned memory-wiped causal time loop and everything else if I had loved most everything EW threw my way and cried all the way through Ultima Thule.

It depends on what they did with it. If they left it as is, the issues are not minor enough for me to simply disregard. I guess my point is I'd find this plot an abysmal mess even if I went in expecting nothing of it.

My music tastes are apparently vastly different from other players. I dislike most of the top song choices, especially Answers.

Same - for me it'd be 'Neath dark waters and its various arrangements, Shadowbringers, Invincible, To The Edge and a few others, like Thunderer and the Garlean Territorial anthem and Locus Amoenus reclamation radio theme. I don't consider Answers bad as a piece of music but given what it attaches to thematically? It leaves me rather cold.

Speaking of Ultima Thule reminded me of Thancred's greatest EW accomplishment: he was a great atmosphere, single-handedly evening the score in the Universe's most important game of Calvinball. Him losing his aether was all part of the grand plan so he could make the finest oxygen and nitrogen atoms around. 10/10 would breathe again!

Let's bottle him up and turn him into a cologne. I like Thancred because he is quite a manly man type character, but both he and Y'shtola really took the backseat for EW (although in the latter's case some may say that's a step in the right direction. )

[PawPaw]

Answers used to be one of my favorites, loved that original ARR trailer! However, the associations it has after EW have completely ruined it for me. I'm not your Dear Child and you're not my mother, you maniac.

[Kyohei]

Same - for me it'd be 'Neath dark waters and its various arrangements, Shadowbringers, Invincible, To The Edge and a few others, like Thunderer and the Garlean Territorial anthem and Locus Amoenus reclamation radio theme. I don't consider Answers bad as a piece of music but given what it attaches to thematically? It leaves me rather cold.

Shadowbringers Scions&Sinner version is absolutely awesome, Neath Dark Waters and To the Edge are amongst my favourites too, and recently Endcaller (Zodiark trial theme) has been added to the list. Going to older expansions, The Ancient City (Amdapor dungeon iirc) piano at the beginning never gets tiring.

[Rulakir]

'The Ancients have a different morality than we do.' -_- Frankly, I don't see how that holds water when the victims of the sundering don't echo that sentiment. Just say Venat had a different morality than everyone else, that would be more accurate.

I didn't like Answers before and I especially don't like it now.

I love Thancred, but I'm over his obsession with Minfilia. I'm not looking forward to him and Krile being my traveling companions if they're going to end up swapping stories about her. No other character in the game is as fixated on another character as he is with her. Unless you count Zenos and the WoL. :P

[Lauront]

Shadowbringers Scions&Sinner version is absolutely awesome, Neath Dark Waters and To the Edge are amongst my favourites too, and recently Endcaller (Zodiark trial theme) has been added to the list. Going to older expansions, The Ancient City (Amdapor dungeon iirc) piano at the beginning never gets tiring.

I'd second the ones you added and add Thunder God's theme to that. Elpis, Ktisis Hyperboreia and Aitiascope all had great themes as well, as did Castrum Fluminis. For me when it comes to the Amdapor themes, I like this one best. Ah, and I forgot Tears for Mor Dhona.

[Theodric]

Answers used to be one of my favorites, loved that original ARR trailer! However, the associations it has after EW have completely ruined it for me. I'm not your Dear Child and you're not my mother, you maniac.

Venat insisting on being everybody's mother just reminds me of Marguerite from Resident Evil 7.

Though unlike Venat, Marguerite was simply an innocent victim in the grand scheme of things.