What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Many people are fascinated by the lives of people who aren't them - such as celebrities and historical figures. There's also a lot of people who dig deep into their family tree to sate their curiosity. If we're to assume that adventurers are thirsty for adventure and knowledge then the aversion to finding out more about the past makes very little sense.

There's plenty of aspects of the story that I don't care about, though if they're fleshed out for those who enjoy them? Great. I just hope that the stuff I do care about is, in turn, fleshed out further as well.

[Caurcas]

Many people are fascinated by the lives of people who aren't them - such as celebrities and historical figures. There's also a lot of people who dig deep into their family tree to sate their curiosity. If we're to assume that adventurers are thirsty for adventure and knowledge then the aversion to finding out more about the past makes very little sense.

There's plenty of aspects of the story that I don't care about, though if they're fleshed out for those who enjoy them? Great. I just hope that the stuff I do care about is, in turn, fleshed out further as well.

My question was from an in universe perspective. Furthermore, the ancient are supremely boring. What did they do besides the final days? That is literally their entire lore. A singular event in a pacifist race.

[tokinokanatae]

My question was from an in universe perspective. Furthermore, the ancient are supremely boring. What did they do besides the final days? That is literally their entire lore. A singular event in a pacifist race.

They did everything any other NPC in the games did, that's the point. People care about the Ancients in the same way they care about other characters, not because of their narrative use.

[KageTokage]

He just bluntly stated as an aside that he really didn't like the concept in response to the bit about G'raha wondering why he even exists still now that the timeline he hailed from should've vanished, but brushed it off presumably because it didn't actually have much bearing on how things played out in Shadowbringers and was more just prior set-up for allowing its plot to occur in the first place...unlike how it was handled in Endwalker.

I'd assume his dislike probably stems from its usage in WoW where it was used as an excuse to create an entire expansion with no build-up, with an army from an alternate timeline just coming out of the blue to assail both warring factions and it being apparent from the get-go that timey-wimey nonsense was to blame. It felt very out of place in a setting that still had multiple antagonists at large and is generally agreed as the point where the story started going off the rails into absurdity.

[KageTokage]

So did this thread reach the conclusion of "How dare the WoL fight against the Unsundered you big meanie Big Papa Emet was justified" yet?
Or was that already a thing?
I really don't want to read over several hundred pages and who knows how many posts. I already feel like my emotional and time investment in the story was basically a gigantic waste.

Oh no, people aren't trying justify Emet's actions at all.

They mostly dislike how everyone in the story seems to ignore the implications that Venat/Hydaelyn was directly/indirectly responsible for a lot more harm then just the Sundering yet is painted in a far more positive light then her peers simply because her path was framed as being the only available option for the world's survival by necessity due to how all the time travel/causal loop nonsense functions.

[Lauront]

Oh no, people aren't trying justify Emet's actions at all.

They mostly dislike how everyone in the story seems to ignore the implications that Venat/Hydaelyn was directly/indirectly responsible for a lot more harm then just the Sundering yet is painted in a far more positive light then her peers simply because her path was framed as being the only available option for the world's survival by necessity due to how all the time travel/causal loop nonsense functions.

It's that, but also the fact that they've framed it as a function of her belief (and to add to this, wrote it in such a way as you can sustain an interpretation like Brinne's, that she romanticised the sundered world based on the WoL's account to some degree), while also leaving some open plot threads that may have been utilised to lead to alternative outcomes, leading the 'necessity' part to be brought into question as well, as well as leaving the question: it worked, but at what cost? Understandably, for a storyline meant to close off the current arc and lead to a new one, many feel this was very messy, didn't do the plot points SHB had developed justice and left several other questions unanswered.

A common take has been that it's perfectly justified for the Sundered to do everything possible in order to survive. On the other hand, the same can be said of the Unsundered - it's a reasonable expectation for the Ascians to do whatever is needed to ensure that their people aren't wiped out.

Shadowbringers took that approach and presented it all as an unfortunate but necessary clash of like wills. If Emet won, his people would be restored and the Sundered would be no more. On the other hand, with the Warrior of Light's victory it was the Ancients who were eliminated in their entirety. The problem, then is that it is Venat who put both sides in such a horrific position in the first place but all sorts of contrived plot devices are pulled out in order to try and awkwardly justify it instead of just straight up admitting that it was pretty abhorrent and selfish of her to do as much.

Worse yet, the Sundered didn't even pass her 'test' because at various points they required the aid of not only the Unsundered but various other powerful entities such as the dragons and Omega in order to succeed. The victory against Meteion wasn't entirely their own doing, thus 'Dynamis' comes across as little more than a sad excuse to try and pretend as if the Ancients 'deserved' to be wiped out because they couldn't wield it effectively. (Which has unpleasant implications - especially when Garleans are unable to wield Aether as well as the other races and led to their persecution and near extinction...)

^This. The sundered as a whole are even more susceptible to it, with their souls being consumed, and even the strongest amongst them (outside your posse) succumbing to despair in several instances - and this is without the incident spreading anywhere near as far as the original did, or devastating the star to the same degree. We have to remember, enough ancients survived the entire ordeal to summon Zodiark in the first place, so it's not as though they were wilting lilies. The problem is that their creation magicks were also being hijacked in the process (the unaddressed subterranean sound, which the Watcher mentions as well), leading to powerful, corrupted monstrosities roaming the star, while the star itself was dying off, leaving them as the only source of aether to fuel into Zodiark - a being which itself protected the sundered world for 12k years.

[Theodric]

A common take has been that it's perfectly justified for the Sundered to do everything possible in order to survive. On the other hand, the same can be said of the Unsundered - it's a reasonable expectation for the Ascians to do whatever is needed to ensure that their people aren't wiped out.

Shadowbringers took that approach and presented it all as an unfortunate but necessary clash of like wills. If Emet won, his people would be restored and the Sundered would be no more. On the other hand, with the Warrior of Light's victory it was the Ancients who were eliminated in their entirety. The problem, then is that it is Venat who put both sides in such a horrific position in the first place but all sorts of contrived plot devices are pulled out in order to try and awkwardly justify it instead of just straight up admitting that it was pretty abhorrent and selfish of her to do as much.

Worse yet, the Sundered didn't even pass her 'test' because at various points they required the aid of not only the Unsundered but various other powerful entities such as the dragons and Omega in order to succeed. The victory against Meteion wasn't entirely their own doing, thus 'Dynamis' comes across as little more than a sad excuse to try and pretend as if the Ancients 'deserved' to be wiped out because they couldn't wield it effectively. (Which has unpleasant implications - especially when Garleans are unable to wield Aether as well as the other races and led to their persecution and near extinction...)

[Skyborne]

'ate me time loops that have unfortunate implications for the WoL/Hydaelyn if you activate your brain.
'ate me memory wipe devices.
'ate me dynamis ex machina that is now being retroactively justified.
'ate me Garlemald just immediately being dumped offscreen, the towers just being resolved immediately, the body swap scene having no point other than a cool instance, and the whole first half feeling like it was stitched together from the remains of another expansion.
'ate me escort and stealth quests.
'ate me endless Scion speeches, filler that feels like it doesn't respect your time and is there so Yoshi can boast that it's the longest expansion by hours.
'ate me cheap emotional manipulation.
'ate me wet fart of a Final Days that only hits two regions in full and all the protags escape with nary a scratch.
'ate me fanservice that isn't really fanservice since we have to watch these people get screwed over and be told they were naughty and deserved it and mom knows best.
'ate me clumsy and forced themes.
Luv me Vrtra.
Luv me Hythlodaeus.
Luv me glory be soup.
Luv me Ra-La and John Globalcitizen.

Simple as.

[PawPaw]

'ate me time loops that have unfortunate implications for the WoL/Hydaelyn if you activate your brain.
'ate me memory wipe devices.
'ate me dynamis ex machina that is now being retroactively justified.
'ate me Garlemald just immediately being dumped offscreen, the towers just being resolved immediately, the body swap scene having no point other than a cool instance, and the whole first half feeling like it was stitched together from the remains of another expansion.
'ate me escort and stealth quests.
'ate me endless Scion speeches, filler that feels like it doesn't respect your time and is there so Yoshi can boast that it's the longest expansion by hours.
'ate me cheap emotional manipulation.
'ate me fanservice that isn't really fanservice since we have to watch these people get screwed over and be told they were naughty and deserved it and mom knows best.
'ate me clumsy and forced themes.
Luv me Vrtra.
Luv me Hythlodaeus.
Luv me glory be soup.
Luv me Ra-La and John Globalcitizen.

Simple as.

Skyborne, this glorious entry was post number 69 (nice). Please say it's not your last!