Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[Skyborne]

How were they hostile? Please tell me you know that the ascians and ancients are separate things. Their demise wasn’t their own making. In that case then the 8UC was the Sundered’s demise of their own making. The ancients themselves did nothing wrong.

Personally, I prefer to have empathy for the 75% of the surviving native inhabitants of the world who gave their lives to save the planet. And they will be indeed be reborn into that same world, as their culture held to be important, rather than viewing it as some sort of karmic 'punishment' for... having three people labor to fight on their behalf.

[Lucida3b]

Are we calling people out now? Jandor isn't the one who comes to mind for me when I think of the most insulting person here.

Anyway, I don't have any expectations for Pandemonium. It just seems like a side story to make Elidibus another BFF of Azem/WoL to further add to the tragedy. I know we've only gotten part 1, but I'm still disappointed so far that it's the Eric show. I don't particularly care about his character and, if I eventually do, it'll just be another to add to the "people who didn't deserve to be sundered" pile.

I'm not interested in revisiting Venat at all to "fix" anything. They made the choice to have the sundering be intentional, with knowledge of the future, and based on an individual's ideology. There isn't a way to fix that, they wrote themselves into a corner. Maybe someday we'll get thrown a bone that the Ancients are saved in an alternate timeline. Otherwise, I suppose her completely ceasing to be is some form of karmic justice even if the game doesn't treat it as such.

What I meant by fix is basically 'actually acknowledge how terrible what venat did was' instead of mostly ignoring it outside of a few lipservice lines, and I mean if we are willing to ignore story established a few patches ago like EW did we can totally retcon venat to make it better

[PawPaw]

their demise was their own making.

No. No it most certainly was not. If the Ancients had allowed their civilization to go the way of the Plenty (as the writers suggest may have happened eventually at some theoretical point in the distant future) then that would have been a demise of their own making.

[Jandor]

Are we calling people out now? Jandor isn't the one who comes to mind for me when I think of the most insulting person here.

Thanks Rulakir.

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In all seriousness though, while I'm admittedly rather flippant about the whole Emet/Venat debate now, I also think a lot of people involved did contribute some pretty unique, interesting and insightful points back at the start, and continue to contribute interesting views when discussing other topics.
While my general view of the story as a whole has remained basically unchanged, as I imagine is the case for most people here, I do have to admit that I have ended up thinking about things I likely otherwise wouldn't have as a result of some of the threads here.

I can't be the only one to have noticed the disappearing posts, I don't want to see it turn into disappearing posters.

[jameseoakes]

What I meant by fix is basically 'actually acknowledge how terrible what venat did was' instead of mostly ignoring it outside of a few lipservice lines, and I mean if we are willing to ignore story established a few patches ago like EW did we can totally retcon venat to make it better

I think a lot of the problem is the writers didn't intend for this to be the way they just don't seem to have thought through how the way they wrote things can be very easily perceived and once seen that way it's very hard to see Venat in a positive light. I'm not quite sure why they let things get this way as they must have know the Ancients would resonate with a lot of the player base so people would see her wiping them out after a pretty poorly done scene as a pretty heinous act. I just think they've dug themselves a really deep hole with this and I can't see how they let themselves get there.

[Skyborne]

...

Same, have been screencapping some of the thoughtful posts in this forum even before signing up, and some have changed my interpretations on some stuff. Also gonna go have a pint with Venat FC man, go to the chip shop afterward. Simple as, nuff said.

[KageTokage]

I think a lot of the problem is the writers didn't intend for this to be the way they just don't seem to have thought through how the way they wrote things can be very easily perceived and once seen that way it's very hard to see Venat in a positive light. I'm not quite sure why they let things get this way as they must have know the Ancients would resonate with a lot of the player base so people would see her wiping them out after a pretty poorly done scene as a pretty heinous act. I just think they've dug themselves a really deep hole with this and I can't see how they let themselves get there.

It really all stems from them opting to use time travel as the solution/explanation to everything for...some reason when we could've relied on other less retroactively intrusive plot devices to relay the same necessary information we needed to stop the Final Days.

With no foreknowledge of the events to come, the only thing Venat could be held accountable for was the Sundering and her seeing that her decision ultimately worked out in the end would've been much more fulfilling if she hadn't already known that was going to be the case. To me it really cheapened her motivations and took the weight out of her decisions when the causal loop effectively changed things from "I'm doing this, but I don't know if it's right." to "I'm doing this because I have to and things will work out."

[Kyohei]

Got to the realisation that time travel and memory issues are their key jokers.
ARR started with Louisoix teleporting the WoLs in the future and a massive amnesia of all eorzeans.

[EaraGrace]

My frustration as someone who has defended Venat, and will continue to do so, is that the negative perspectives on her seem rooted in assuming the worst possible interpretations of her actions, ignoring information that contradicts or disproves those interpretations, and then getting increasingly upset at the caricature. It’s a constant back and forth of “we’ll it’s possible she’s just lying, therefore that means she definitely is” and “she for some reason didn’t try anything but the Sundering and thus my plan for defeating Meteion would totally work despite it undermining the meta textual message and the narrative going out of its way to explain why it wouldn’t work.”


Like if we’re gonna discuss canon, then we can’t just go “oh well that particular piece of canon is just stupid so I’ll ignore.” That’s fine for au’s and headcanons, not fine for lore discussions.

I can't be the only one to have noticed the disappearing posts, I don't want to see it turn into disappearing posters.

If this is what the lore forum will be like from here on then perhaps it’s best for things to die off.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I think when the devs contradict and undermine their own meta textual messages, it’s a sign that maybe they aren’t as concrete as they’d like people to believe. I’d find their themes a lot easier to swallow if they didn’t have to contradict them just for the heroes to win or for specific characters to be painted in a good light.