FF14 and toxic positivity

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It goes both ways.
Look back at all the threads criticizing Endwalker for not being able to log on because of the usual Massive flood of people trying to log in creating congestion.

Anybody who voiced the opposite and said they were able to log in and were having a good time.....or anybody who reacted negatively to harsh, and unfair "criticisms" and attacks on the devs, were called bootlickers, fanboys, White Knights and called part of a cult.
Pretty much just insulting them and invalidating their experience.


You wanna talk about getting gaslighted, remember the Venom people were spitting at anybody who didnt have a bad experience with EW the 1st month

[Dragonlancer]

How can positivity be toxic? This modern world gets stranger by the day.

[Kaurhz]

How can positivity be toxic? This modern world gets stranger by the day.

It's just a meaningless buzzword created by folk which want to scrutinize the game (which is ok), yet don't want to have their own opinions subjected to the self-same scrutiny by other people.

[HyoMinPark]

It's just a meaningless buzzword created by folk which want to scrutinize the game (which is ok), yet don't want to have their own opinions subjected to the self-same scrutiny by other people.

It’s actually not that at all. Toxic positivity exists well outside this game, and has for a while. That said, I do believe that there is toxic positivity and enabling of toxic positive behaviors in this game. There’s always been a degree of toxicity in FFXIV, but it does seem to be getting worse as the playerbase grows and the game ages. Kind of to be expected.

But it’s not some crazy invention or meaningless buzzword. It’s very much a real thing.



Troll thread or not, this subject matter could actually provide some decent discourse if people were willing to have it. However, it could also devolve into a complete and total dumpster fire.

I haven’t read beyond the first page and the last few responses, but I may go back through and see if there’s any discussion actually being had in here later.

[Kaurhz]

It’s actually not that at all. Toxic positivity exists well outside this game, and has for a while. That said, I do believe that there is toxic positivity and enabling of toxic positive behaviors in this game. There’s always been a degree of toxicity in FFXIV, but it does seem to be getting worse as the playerbase grows and the game ages. Kind of to be expected.

But it’s not some crazy invention or meaningless buzzword. It’s very much a real thing.

It's a very real word sure, but the manner in which the community overuses said term and how inappropriately said term is used then yes, yes it becomes pretty meaningless. It's slowly on the rise but it is not anywhere near as prevalent as people on this forum would like to try and overstate. All it results in is gross generalisations applied to the community as a whole. Ironically the embodiment of this very thread. So in the circumstance of this game you'll have a difficult time convincing otherwise. The end result regardless of how you look at it is just something that stifles any form of discussion.

Replying to your edit: I think given the length of your stay you'll probably understand that the end-result is just a taxing back and fourth of playing the blame game, thus a dumpster fire. This thread providing any form of meaningful discourse is just moot, again because this is just an overstated hyperbole. The number of people actually being toxic positivists is much lower than people are led to believe. For this reason and this reason alone meaningful discourse won't really happen, won't change anything. It'll either be an echo-chamber or people biting back at the generalisations. No different from how people are oh-so-eager to label another individual as a white-knight or fanboy for simply disagreeing with a criticism. Equally no different from the folk that seem to think people on the game are immune to criticisms, as if criticism in the first place is a homogenous perspective. All of these examples only serve to highlight the blatant inappropriate-ness of some terms and phrases used.

Equally, there's a certain amount of irony in attacking the developers (Which was very prevalent during server issues), and then expecting to think you can try and deflect any criticism upon yourself with "Lul, more toxic positivity and white knights". As far as I'm concerned, this is just a reap what you sow situation.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a very real word sure, but the manner in which the community overuses said term and how inappropriately said term is used then yes, yes it becomes pretty meaningless. It's slowly on the rise but it is not anywhere near as prevalent as people on this forum would like to try and overstate. All it results in is gross generalisations applied to the community as a whole. Ironically the embodiment of this very thread. So in the circumstance of this game you'll have a difficult time convincing otherwise. The end result regardless of how you look at it is just something that stifles any form of discussion.

Replying to your edit: I think given the length of your stay you'll probably understand that the end-result is just a taxing back and fourth of playing the blame game. This thread providing any form of meaningful discourse is just moot, again because this is just an overstated hyperbole. The number of people actually being toxic positivists is much lower than people are led to believe. For this reason and this reason alone meaningful discourse won't really happen, won't change anything. It'll either be an echo-chamber or people biting back at the generalisations. No different from how people are oh-so-eager to label another individual as a white-knight or fanboy for simply disagreeing with a criticism. Equally no different from the folk that seem to think people on the game are immune to criticisms, as if criticism in the first place is a homogenous perspective. All of these examples only serve to highlight the blatant inappropriate-ness of some terms and phrases used.

Equally, there's a certain amount of irony in attacking the developers (Which was very prevalent during server issues), and then expecting to think you can try and deflect any criticism upon yourself with "Lul, more toxic positivity and white knights". As far as I'm concerned, this is just a reap what you sow situation.

I think the ability to have decent discourse about this subject would fail more so because of a lack of maturity, and perhaps even a lack of willingness to admit to poor behaviors from those who actually engage in them. But this isn’t something exclusive to this game or this forum, but just people in general. If I had to give a reason for why discourse on this topic would fail, it would be that.

Even if it is not a majorly prevalent or a pervasive phenomenon in FFXIV, I don’t believe that should immediately discredit the idea of discussing it. Same with other forms of toxicity that exist in this game (from toxic casualism to toxic elitism—they both exist in the game, and are quite prevalent in their own right). Meaningful discourse can still be had even if the rate of toxic positivity is low. As I said above, it relies more heavily on the maturity of those discussing it—not on things like rate of occurrence or prevalence.

But these are just my opinions that I’m stating while waiting for my files to load at work. They more than likely amount to nothing at the end of the day—just things I was thinking about what I saw the thread.

[Dragonlancer]

Civil conversation is possible if only it's participants resist interjecting their opinions based on feelings. Facts are what's important; feelings are not.

[Kaurhz]

I think the ability to have decent discourse about this subject would fail more so because of a lack of maturity, and perhaps even a lack of willingness to admit to poor behaviors from those who actually engage in them. But this isn’t something exclusive to this game or this forum, but just people in general. If I had to give a reason for why discourse on this topic would fail, it would be that.

Even if it is not a majorly prevalent or a pervasive phenomenon in FFXIV, I don’t believe that should immediately discredit the idea of discussing it. Same with other forms of toxicity that exist in this game (from toxic casualism to toxic elitism—they both exist in the game, and are quite prevalent in their own right). Meaningful discourse can still be had even if the rate of toxic positivity is low. As I said above, it relies more heavily on the maturity of those discussing it—not on things like rate of occurrence or prevalence.

But these are just my opinions that I’m stating while waiting for my files to load at work. They more than likely amount to nothing at the end of the day—just things I was thinking about what I saw the thread.

Sure, and this is a woeful issue from a lot of people. Not just those that are vocal, but equally amongst those whom are less vocal. That being said, discussing the idea and prospective of it is 1 thing entirely, but creating a thread or blanketing the bulk of the community with such a tag is an entirely different matter. Heck, by all means create a thread discussing the importance of critiquing a game, both what you enjoy and what you do not. No use trying to create woefully inaccurate generalisations.

As per above poster, many people are reacting on the basis of emotion and not on the basis of fact, and some folk just don't have the emotional fortitude to handle a disagreement with their criticism without feeling as if their criticism is being oppressed, or that they're being called out for being a troll, as highlighted in the OPs key point, which acting on emotion is fine, but don't be surprised when people reciprocate with their own emotions. That being said, if you're called a troll and in particular of a certain set of individuals then it is more than likely because you have done so in the past. If you want people to take your opinions seriously then you ought not to gain a rep for being a troll in the first place. Just some of my closing thoughts on the basis of this particular thread.

[Saraide]

How can positivity be toxic? This modern world gets stranger by the day.

If things are going wrong but positivity is enforced to the point where it surpresses any dissenting opinion it has become toxic. It's like if someone took a shit in the room but you are not allowed to point that out or even complain that it smells bad because that's confrontational. You be the judge if that applies to this game but toxic positivity is a real thing and it's very draining to deal with.

[Dragonlancer]

If things are going wrong but positivity is enforced to the point where it surpresses any dissenting opinion it has become toxic. It's like if someone took a shit in the room but you are not allowed to point that out or even complain that it smells bad because that's confrontational. You be the judge if that applies to this game but toxic positivity is a real thing and it's very draining to deal with.

I can see your point and that certainly makes sense. I suppose the way I see positivity is to appreciate what I have and not to be upset about what I do not have. On the other hand these days we have the politically correct laws and the socialist lunatics who try to silence any opposing opinions and conversely reward the woke hive mentality with praise, and you have a very real toxicity. Fortunately I don't see that to the same extreme in this game as I do in politics, schools, etc.