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  1. #10
    Player
    Lauront's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Amaurot
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    4,449
    Character
    Tristain Archambeau
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    Okay, so there's something that gives a bit more detail on this one, and it shows better the truth of what happened. From the second Emet-Selch Tales from the Shadows (the 'Azem Vs The Volcano' one):



    So this gives us a timeframe; this is specifically after the second sacrifice, but before the Convocation were locked in on the third. If we want to put together an actual chronology, we know that the Anamnesis meeting was after this, because at that point the Convocation were certain and unyielding. But, now take into account his line after becoming what we now know is a primal, as well as the heart of Zodiark: "You will make the right choice, and I will see it through."

    He's not extending impartiality, he's extending certainty. The assurance that the choice they make will be the right one--and as Zodiark's heart, there was only ever one road he was going to go down. He 'reconciled' by leading people down one specific road--and you can tell from the Anamnesis meeting, the opposing side wasn't quelled, they were shut out.
    Yes, I am well aware of these sources, seeing as I have referenced them multiple times here. I'm afraid you're simply filling in gaps at this point with your own speculation, which is fine; but it's all it is. I could just as easily paint the picture that Elidibus's return 1) cemented the idea that their plan is feasible and 2) conveyed to the surviving ancients that those within him were in a limbo and thus sufficed to quash any doubts on the feasibility of that plan or about any concerns as to whether those inside Zodiark would feel wronged by the Convocation enacting this plan. His role as Emissary is there to reconcile conflicting opinions. The bolded is simply spin. Zodiark had no inherent interest in the affair because the primal lacks any will outside of Elidibus and this is an exchange of life for life, so the primal gains nothing on net. So at best Elidibus would be voicing the discontent of the thoughts of the souls inside the primal.

    With that, compared to a faction exhorting their people to embrace suffering, without offering any concrete rationale for it that we can see, when their society had managed to curtail many of the things causing it, it is easy to see why her faction would be "shut out" and their concerns dismissed. There is no dispute from her faction that their goal was to steer the star on the best possible future - that comes from her own mouth.

    Perhaps now you will appreciate why Kizuya wanted to see that scene play out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpectrePhantasia View Post
    It's an interesting thought, but I think that is making a lot of assumptions for what is a very vaguely described event in the novella. Here Emet-selch is speaking of the people, not simply the Convocation, and as Elidibus says in his death, this division over the star's fate was not 'fleeting.' That it came after the second sacrifice (because that is when the disagreement began to appear) was already quite apparent, and doesn't narrow things down as much as one might think. It's also important to bear in mind that in the Anamnesis scene, an Ancient mentions themselves singularly being ignored by the Convocation. Nothing is mentioned of a response in a group context and we get nothing of how the Convocation might have reacted in a post-Hydaelyn scenario. Heck, since Emet-selch is referring more broadly to the people, that novella scene could have been after Hydaelyn's summoning, for all we know. According to Emet-selch the two fought for a long time so really anything's possible.

    As for the separation from Zodiark itself, I think it is pretty safe to assume that it was of Elidibus's own volition. Even if it were a summoning made through some unconscious wish, akin to Louisoix as the Phoenix, would it not stand to reason those people would have simply conjured a primal out of thin air, from their prayers? It makes little sense to me that such wishes would carve out the heart of Zodiark.

    There are just too many missing pieces to come to a definite conclusion on any of it, but in response to supposition I will supply my own. I think Elidibus did very much have it within his capability to mediate impartially. Above all else, above his role as Zodiark's heart, his role was one of reconciliation, that was his duty, and it is what he finally remembers as he dies. If Elidibus were truly a slave to Zodiark, I don't believe he would have left him masterless and vulnerable, to a point where Hydaelyn could be a match for him. In his death we learn that what Elidibus truly valued was the smiling faces of those he loved, (which is more directly referred to in his JP final words) and I think reconciliation in a truer sense than shutting out naysayers would be what he'd have pursued. Where you see "You will make the right choice" as "You will make my choice," I see it as a reassuring "You will find the right choice."
    Elidibus does not even compel Fandaniel's obedience. He simply tries to convince him through argument. Were he to desire the compulsion of obedience, why even leave the primal? I agree with your interpretation of it, anyway. I suspect it is why their supporters' numbers eventually dwindled to just a few. My belief is Elidibus helped make the argument by way of demonstration - and that's why it would've been nice to see this stuff play out, rather than some poor strawman ancients drawing the supreme deity's ire.
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    Last edited by Lauront; 03-06-2022 at 12:07 AM.
    When the game's story becomes self-aware: