World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Themarvin]

That's cute: legacy players who haven't even cleared the tier trying to tell people they played more FF14 than everyone else. Shocker, but, you don't have more experience with the game just because you're a legacy player who hasn't engaged with more than half the content that exists in FF14. Go get a fully upgraded Eureka weapon or clear a Savage or solo a deep dungeon before talking more.

It is all on you then, some of the content back in 1.0 and 2.0 is more hardcore than top tier Savage is today, and still is, you dont need to clear any savage, solo deep dungeon... centurio tiger... go clear something of that old stuff on min ilevel and no echo.... could start with turn 9, do it blind as well, if you dare.

[Roflcopter]

Midcore players are casual players. Assuming "midcore" means challenging content that can be completed without having to coordinate with people on voice chat. I would agree that we need more of that kind of content.

The last thing most of us want to do on a Tuesday evening is listen to some 22 year old prick with anger management issues bark at people in discord or vent.

[Minarisweet]

This game can stay alive with the same kinda patch cycle that they have but they haven't made a single piece of content that can be infinitely grinded or worth grinding for that matter so when the update cycles stop this game is doomed to have a really low playerbase since there will be quite literally no reasons to log in aside from rping.

[Skiros]

It is all on you then, some of the content back in 1.0 and 2.0 is more hardcore than top tier Savage is today, and still is, you dont need to clear any savage, solo deep dungeon... centurio tiger... go clear something of that old stuff on min ilevel and no echo.... could start with turn 9, do it blind as well, if you dare.

Lol I cleared T6S-T9S min ilvl. HW raids were far harder than ARR raids, and I don't think top tier Savage is hard anyways!

[Liam_Harper]

There is a hint of truth to this.

I had a wall of text typed out, but honestly I've rambled about it all enough times and there's no point. I love the game, it has enjoyable raids, a great story and the devs avoid things like endless treadmills and FOMO. Other games fail at this, so it's worth the sub for now. But it feels like every expansion an activity I used to enjoy is torn apart and handed over to people who didn't even like it for "accessibility" and it's frustrating. It also feels like the short term effects of handing things over to people on a plate and recent success of the game after WoW fell apart has caused a touch of arrogance to creep in and I'm seeing more of a dismissive "we know what's best" attitude.

I'm a little tired of how crafting is worthless, the DoH forums are a ghost town, Healers are rioting and told to be quiet, botting is rampant and unchecked, Hunts are an utter mess that the devs ignore and a source of player conflict, housing is a mess, class design is more watered down but they keep pumping new classes out, they keep trimming content but pour resources into other things that are just 10 minutes and done and so on.

Could be worse, but it's not perfect.

[Skiros]

There is a hint of truth to this.

I had a wall of text typed out, but honestly I've rambled about it all enough times and there's no point. I love the game, it has enjoyable raids, a great story and the devs avoid things like endless treadmills and FOMO. Other games fail at this, so it's worth the sub for now. But it feels like every expansion an activity I used to enjoy is torn apart and handed over to people who didn't even like it for "accessibility" and it's frustrating. It also feels like the short term effects of handing things over to people on a plate and recent success of the game after WoW fell apart has caused a touch of arrogance to creep in and I'm seeing more of a dismissive "we know what's best" attitude.

I'm a little tired of how crafting is worthless, the DoH forums are a ghost town, Healers are rioting and told to be quiet, botting is rampant and unchecked, Hunts are an utter mess that the devs ignore and a source of player conflict, housing is a mess, class design is more watered down but they keep pumping new classes out, they keep trimming content but pour resources into other things that are just 10 minutes and done and so on.

Could be worse, but it's not perfect.

Resources are probably being poured into other games. Barely anyone even batted an eye at the announcement that we're going to a 4-month patch cycle now. Under what circumstances will no one even talk about a pure negative? When it's completely within expectation.

A lot of players will never admit it, but it's only when people have such low expectations that things like this fly.

[ForteNightshade]

There is a hint of truth to this.

I had a wall of text typed out, but honestly I've rambled about it all enough times and there's no point. I love the game, it has enjoyable raids, a great story and the devs avoid things like endless treadmills and FOMO. Other games fail at this, so it's worth the sub for now. But it feels like every expansion an activity I used to enjoy is torn apart and handed over to people who didn't even like it for "accessibility" and it's frustrating. It also feels like the short term effects of handing things over to people on a plate and recent success of the game after WoW fell apart has caused a touch of arrogance to creep in and I'm seeing more of a dismissive "we know what's best" attitude.

I'm a little tired of how crafting is worthless, the DoH forums are a ghost town, Healers are rioting and told to be quiet, botting is rampant and unchecked, Hunts are an utter mess that the devs ignore and a source of player conflict, housing is a mess, class design is more watered down but they keep pumping new classes out, they keep trimming content but pour resources into other things that are just 10 minutes and done and so on.

Could be worse, but it's not perfect.

This summarizes my feelings as well. Crafting used to be something I enjoyed; having learned the systems back in Heavensward and put both time and effort into gearing up from nothing. In fact, I still have the Ironworks coat I spent all day years ago figuring out how to make.

Come Stormblood, I was okay with the slight reduction in difficulty. It felt like a fair enough compromise but Shadowbringers came along and basically ruined Crafting. It's so damn easy now that I hardly bother because what's even the point? Right now, all the gear is worth less than the white leveling gear we got at Endwalker's release. "Well, it's week eight. Of course it's cheap now!" It didn't used to be this cheap. Nowhere close. And what's worse is all Crafters will get come 6.1 is a new left side to flood and nothing else. Instead of having the augmented pieces have a crafting component, they're just a free upgrade.

So nowadays I craft for raid, craft for a few friends and hardly touch it otherwise. It's incredibly frustrating how "accessibility" matters more than people who already enjoy the content when those same people they're catering to still don't care to look at it.

[LittleImp]

It is all on you then, some of the content back in 1.0 and 2.0 is more hardcore than top tier Savage is today

Lmao. Coil was a hot meme, and a huge part of the reason why the community struggled so hard with the first tier of Alexander Savage. People were too used to being able to press completely random buttons and clear coil fights.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Friends, you don't have to take the bait on these threads. It's ok to just - not.

[sharknado]

Guess what, the majority of your playerbase is midcore. Not casual players who have a panic attack when they need to use more than three buttons on their hotbars. Not hardcore players who clear the tier in 16 hours.

It's just such a generalization to fit your narrative. People quit wow because it was not fun to play. For years slowly growing to a critical mass that blew up during perfect storm of bad expansion, lawsuit/really horrific news and Asmon showcasing FF14 as a good normal game.

The game did whatever it took to make "hardcore" players life more annoying. From tier to tier in the last 2-ish expansion it become harder and harder to gear up for the mythic opening by restricting trading/split runs efficiency (but never completely preventing pre-gearing thus forcing mythic guilds to pre-gear). Then RNG systems like legendaries or current covenants that just forced pro players to have multiple copies of same character - same class, just different covenant or new character just because previous one got unlucky with it first two legendaries. And as they are bad at balancing we had cases or Benthic gear that overshadowed mythic gear or corruptions that made the tier pay to win with corrupted BoEs (and screwing anyone without a wallet or big guild help).

Anyone below high-end the systems weren't supposed to have an impact but they did... and at some point it's not fun any more - expansion gives you 4 cool new spells but you have to choose one, or your legendaries, corruption are RNG to force you into months of continuous grind just to "catch up" to lucky ones that got it early.

Then add lack of content to then get constantly the same very basic content and "retention metrics" designed grinds ensuring Blizzard gets months of subs.

I permanently quit just before 9.0.5. at some point I had to go do weekly Thorgast runs just because of weekly resets. I was there pressing one button, wasting like 2h while I wanted to play HS Battlegrounds... but no, WoW won't let you, it will require months of "presence" just that you don't unsub till next patch or you will fall behind hard.

And they even managed to screw their golden goose like M+ by trying to make it some competitive esports.

FF14 is not WoW and I don't see any WoW problems here. It has and can have it own problems but that's another topic. I'm kind of dissapointed you didn't mentioned "PvP as a way forward" or other game design memes.

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

I didn't played FF this week. My alt jobs will wait till I return while my main job isn't loosing any FOMO system. Playing a MMO without a freaking calendar and only when I want to is such a shocker, isn't it?