Making the case for a new starting point in 7.0

[SieyaM]

It sounds like people believe that 7.0 is going to be a PSO New Genesis situation where they are going to retain job names and skill names but drop us in a completely new area with no affiliations to previous content and I don't think that is the case. We will most likely start 7.0 interacting with people we know and have a history with, and they will speak with us as though we have already done all the things in the previous arc. I can't imagine any beginning of 7.0 where we will be in a position where we know no one and nothing about the world around us when we spent the last story arc on nearly every continent playing a major role in historic events. Even if we start 7.0 on a different shard they would have to explain how that happened.

[aveyond-dreams]

It sounds like people believe that 7.0 is going to be a PSO New Genesis situation where they are going to retain job names and skill names but drop us in a completely new area with no affiliations to previous content and I don't think that is the case. We will most likely start 7.0 interacting with people we know and have a history with, and they will speak with us as though we have already done all the things in the previous arc. I can't imagine any beginning of 7.0 where we will be in a position where we know no one and nothing about the world around us when we spent the last story arc on nearly every continent playing a major role in historic events. Even if we start 7.0 on a different shard they would have to explain how that happened.

To be fair, we do not know the full consequences that the events of Endwalker have had for the world and we could very easily enter into a new era of gods who "inherit the will" of their predecessors and in regards to the remaining world, it's unlikely that the WoL's existence is known to people in the New World or Meracydia. We are casting away the title regardless, so I also don't think it would be particularly relevant in the previous Imperial territories should they choose to send us there either.

Most characters from Season 1 have completed their arcs and again, would have little to do with the regions of the world we haven't been in. Whether or not we're friends with Aymeric would have little impact if we try to restore the monarchies of Dalmasca or Corvos. I also do not forsee us going to another shard anytime soon. When or if that time comes, it'll probably only require a few cutscenes' worth of exposition, which is little more than what we went into with for Shadowbringers and things turned out great in the end.

What exactly will happen in 7.0 remains unknown but we do know that we are starting from scratch again, as adventurers out to see the world in a position no different to how we started in ARR, except with better looking gear. The majority of Season 1's mysteries have been resolved, so new ones would have to be introduced and general concepts like the Void and the shards are not so complicated as to require playing through so much content to understand. As for the cast-I think the best thing that could occur at this point is that the Heavensward/FFXVI team comes back and writes the Scions out of the story for the next few years and replaces the party with more fleshed out personalities like Estiniens, Yysales, etc. instead of stagnant characters whose arcs ended and have no tangible goals, yet they remain for reasons unknown.

[deadman1204]

The OP should notice that EVERY other mmo on the market is not so story heavy. FFXIV has its niche BECAUSE its so story heavy.

[Atelier-Bagur]

To be fair, we do not know the full consequences that the events of Endwalker have had for the world and we could very easily enter into a new era of gods who "inherit the will" of their predecessors and in regards to the remaining world, it's unlikely that the WoL's existence is known to people in the New World or Meracydia. We are casting away the title regardless, so I also don't think it would be particularly relevant in the previous Imperial territories should they choose to send us there either.

Most characters from Season 1 have completed their arcs and again, would have little to do with the regions of the world we haven't been in. Whether or not we're friends with Aymeric would have little impact if we try to restore the monarchies of Dalmasca or Corvos. I also do not forsee us going to another shard anytime soon. When or if that time comes, it'll probably only require a few cutscenes' worth of exposition, which is little more than what we went into with for Shadowbringers and things turned out great in the end.

What exactly will happen in 7.0 remains unknown but we do know that we are starting from scratch again, as adventurers out to see the world in a position no different to how we started in ARR, except with better looking gear. The majority of Season 1's mysteries have been resolved, so new ones would have to be introduced and general concepts like the Void and the shards are not so complicated as to require playing through so much content to understand. As for the cast-I think the best thing that could occur at this point is that the Heavensward/FFXVI team comes back and writes the Scions out of the story for the next few years and replaces the party with more fleshed out personalities like Estiniens, Yysales, etc. instead of stagnant characters whose arcs ended and have no tangible goals, yet they remain for reasons unknown.

You clearly have no idea how story structure works. Your example of Shadowbringers only made sense because of the bread crumbs left from previous expansions prior with, the world set with ARR, G'raha Tia and the Crystal Tower and the Warriors of Darkness and Minfillia. Shadowbringers wouldnt have worked as a story if it didnt had those connections to back its premise up. Also it would be very irresponsible of the writers to just cut all ties to every single Scion or character when a majority of this player base has grown attached to them. We can definitely use more scale-back and introduce new characters that will make them relevant in 7.0 but for you to think that they werent needed and had no goals when they've been stuck with you throughout every expansion is just a terrible take.

[aveyond-dreams]

You clearly have no idea how story structure works. Your example of Shadowbringers only made sense because of the bread crumbs left from previous expansions prior with, the world set with ARR, G'raha Tia and the Crystal Tower and the Warriors of Darkness and Minfillia. Shadowbringers wouldnt have worked as a story if it didnt had those connections to back its premise up. Also it would be very irresponsible of the writers to just cut all ties to every single Scion or character when a majority of this player base has grown attached to them. We can definitely use more scale-back and introduce new characters that will make them relevant in 7.0 but for you to think that they werent needed and had no goals when they've been stuck with you throughout every expansion is just a terrible take.

I guarantee you that I could drop the average Final Fantasy fan at the start of Shadowbringers and they would get their bearings quite easily within the first 5 minutes of the story. You have your world, and now you're in a new one that's in danger. The bad guys want to destroy that world and doing so would also affect your own because they are connected. This, at a basic level, is not something that is beyond their capacity to understand. They can be filled in on the finer details later-obviously this does not hold for Endwalker because it is specifically built upon the end of Shadowbringers.

In terms of characters, all you'd need to tell someone is that G'raha joined you for a few quests once upon a time and that Ardbert and you fought at some point. It's probably best for new players to view Minfilia as anything but the role she played in ARR-letting them be introduced to her as the Oracle of Light is a mercy. As for the scions I directly oppose your opinion and strongly believe that we cannot deal with another 10 years of this cast. You may have started mid Stormblood or Shadowbringers, but I have been here since day 1. Their stories are over, unless something drastically changes in the 6.X patch series. This isn't about attachment-it's about telling a story that won't bore the audience.

I also maintain that the Scions have very little in the way of goals. At least in Shadowbringers Thancred wanted to bring Minfilia back and took on a more paternal role for Ryne later on. However he was utterly bland and forgettable in Endwalker. He may have wanted to save the world for the First to also be saved, but what then? He isn't even a flirtatious womanizer anymore. He's just boring. Urianger basically boils down to "I totally promise not to lie to you guys" and then proceeds to lie to us or give us some lore/exposition, of which better vehicles of delivery exist.

I'm very open about my criticism of Y'shtola. She is little more than a pretty face whose numerous fakeouts combined with her snarky personality have completely turned me off from her character. She may have allegedly cared about the Night's Blessed but her ego and arrogance clearly prevented her from displaying much of that in Shadowbringers. G'raha Tia was arguably one of the more intriguing characters in Shadowbringers but was reduced to a laughingstock when they turned his personality into that of an insufferable hero-worshipper who is written more like a fanfiction character whose purpose is to make the reader feel good, assuming they like him. His goal is to be our fanboy, and I think it's ridiculous. Give me someone like Morrigan from Dragon Age who actively questioned and argued with us about our choices, instead of a yes-man.

I'll be brief with the twins-Alisae is ok but Alphinaud has gotta go. You can't possibly expect people to tolerate 10 more years of his moralizing, but I will conceded that he does seem to have a consistent goal throughout the expansions: regime change. Unfortunately that's gotten old. So you'll forgive me if I'd much rather start 7.0 with a completely blank slate, and support the idea to offer others the options to start at that point instead of continuing...whatever it was that was going on with Endwalker and its own mess in the writing room. The time has come for another Heavensward style expansion, a self-contained conflict in a new geographic region with well-developed characters that are not only distinct, but believable as well. To grow forward in meaningful ways, and tell a new story worth listening to, the past needs to stay in the past.

[Fhaerron]

Although I know one of the main attractions for Final Fantasy XIV is its story I think we all have to come to the realization that many, many players just are not interested in the story and want to enjoy the game all the same. Many players have friends they'd like to recommend the game to but can't because of the hundreds of hours of content new players would have to get through in order to join them in current content. I think with 7.0 (really 6.x) being the start of a new story in game it might be time to allow players to start there. How to do this?

Well there are a number of solutions. One would be to introduce a new experience for new players in order to introduce them to the mechanics of the game while quickly leveling them to the current level cap. Take something like Palace of the Dead where you have a leveling system separate from the main games and you can level from 1 to 60 in about an hour. While I don't think it needs to be quite that quick it could be something like 10-20 hours, which is much more of a reasonable ask than 100s. THis could even be a more condensed way to get players caught up with the world of FFXIV, though they wouldn't need to do that. During this 10-20 hour new player experience you'd get introduced to basic mechanics of the game, a dungeon or two and a trial before being put into the main game.

An alternative idea (though less interesting IMO) would be to give 1 free story skip and job skip to all new subscribers (not Free Trial players.)

So what do you think?

Why would they do that? The skip potions (even though I still think they should have never added that) are one of the most bought items on the store, aside from the plastic surgery potion.

[Lunalepsy]

Although I know one of the main attractions for Final Fantasy XIV is its story I think we all have to come to the realization that many, many players just are not interested in the story and want to enjoy the game all the same. Many players have friends they'd like to recommend the game to but can't because of the hundreds of hours of content new players would have to get through in order to join them in current content. I think with 7.0 (really 6.x) being the start of a new story in game it might be time to allow players to start there. How to do this?

Well there are a number of solutions. One would be to introduce a new experience for new players in order to introduce them to the mechanics of the game while quickly leveling them to the current level cap. Take something like Palace of the Dead where you have a leveling system separate from the main games and you can level from 1 to 60 in about an hour. While I don't think it needs to be quite that quick it could be something like 10-20 hours, which is much more of a reasonable ask than 100s. THis could even be a more condensed way to get players caught up with the world of FFXIV, though they wouldn't need to do that. During this 10-20 hour new player experience you'd get introduced to basic mechanics of the game, a dungeon or two and a trial before being put into the main game.

An alternative idea (though less interesting IMO) would be to give 1 free story skip and job skip to all new subscribers (not Free Trial players.)

So what do you think?

They should go back to FFXI/RO and see if they can take elements from those games. We need something more engaging!

[Atelier-Bagur]

I guarantee you that I could drop the average Final Fantasy fan at the start of Shadowbringers and they would get their bearings quite easily within the first 5 minutes of the story. You have your world, and now you're in a new one that's in danger. The bad guys want to destroy that world and doing so would also affect your own because they are connected. This, at a basic level, is not something that is beyond their capacity to understand. They can be filled in on the finer details later-obviously this does not hold for Endwalker because it is specifically built upon the end of Shadowbringers.

I'm very open about my criticism of Y'shtola. She is little more than a pretty face whose numerous fakeouts combined with her snarky personality have completely turned me off from her character. She may have allegedly cared about the Night's Blessed but her ego and arrogance clearly prevented her from displaying much of that in Shadowbringers. G'raha Tia was arguably one of the more intriguing characters in Shadowbringers but was reduced to a laughingstock when they turned his personality into that of an insufferable hero-worshipper who is written more like a fanfiction character whose purpose is to make the reader feel good, assuming they like him. His goal is to be our fanboy, and I think it's ridiculous. Give me someone like Morrigan from Dragon Age who actively questioned and argued with us about our choices, instead of a yes-man.

I love how you ignore how all of the Scions Shb arcs had a conclusion. Thancred with coming to terms with Minfillia and Ryne, Urianger with him trying to do whats best for everyone, Alphinaud's entire character growth, and G'raha Tia finally being able to let go of his burden and to live out his dream with adventuring with the WoL. There was never the need for them to carry all that ShB baggage going into Endwalker because they all had their conclusions prior to it. Also I really dont care if you like to criticize certain characters, I for one share some of your criticisms, especially regarding Y'shtola but Im not going to just ignore the stuff that worked with her and all the other characters that still keeps them relevant. This story is an on going narrative, and whatever story comes in 6.1-6.5 we'll just have to wait and see how potentially accessible it'll be for new players to just skip everything prior and jump into 7.0

[SieyaM]

To be fair, we do not know the full consequences that the events of Endwalker have had for the world and we could very easily enter into a new era of gods who "inherit the will" of their predecessors and in regards to the remaining world, it's unlikely that the WoL's existence is known to people in the New World or Meracydia. We are casting away the title regardless, so I also don't think it would be particularly relevant in the previous Imperial territories should they choose to send us there either.

Most characters from Season 1 have completed their arcs and again, would have little to do with the regions of the world we haven't been in. Whether or not we're friends with Aymeric would have little impact if we try to restore the monarchies of Dalmasca or Corvos. I also do not forsee us going to another shard anytime soon. When or if that time comes, it'll probably only require a few cutscenes' worth of exposition, which is little more than what we went into with for Shadowbringers and things turned out great in the end.

What exactly will happen in 7.0 remains unknown but we do know that we are starting from scratch again, as adventurers out to see the world in a position no different to how we started in ARR, except with better looking gear. The majority of Season 1's mysteries have been resolved, so new ones would have to be introduced and general concepts like the Void and the shards are not so complicated as to require playing through so much content to understand. As for the cast-I think the best thing that could occur at this point is that the Heavensward/FFXVI team comes back and writes the Scions out of the story for the next few years and replaces the party with more fleshed out personalities like Estiniens, Yysales, etc. instead of stagnant characters whose arcs ended and have no tangible goals, yet they remain for reasons unknown.

So we would end up ignoring the fact the we have already made contact with Dalmascan resistance forces and our name would be known to them for all of our effort in the Ivalice raid series?

[aveyond-dreams]

I love how you ignore how all of the Scions Shb arcs had a conclusion. Thancred with coming to terms with Minfillia and Ryne, Urianger with him trying to do whats best for everyone, Alphinaud's entire character growth, and G'raha Tia finally being able to let go of his burden and to live out his dream with adventuring with the WoL. There was never the need for them to carry all that ShB baggage going into Endwalker because they all had their conclusions prior to it. Also I really dont care if you like to criticize certain characters, I for one share some of your criticisms, especially regarding Y'shtola but Im not going to just ignore the stuff that worked with her and all the other characters that still keeps them relevant. This story is an on going narrative, and whatever story comes in 6.1-6.5 we'll just have to wait and see how potentially accessible it'll be for new players to just skip everything prior and jump into 7.0

I quite literally stated earlier that their arcs had ended and that their continued presence serves no further purpose. They have finished growing and are now stagnant. Please reread the above posts. You cannot expect people to sit through a story in which the characters cease developing in the way that the Scions have currently. Either something exciting happens with them, or it's time for new cast members. In any case only time will tell what buildup we will see in the coming patches, anything is possible these days.

So we would end up ignoring the fact the we have already made contact with Dalmascan resistance forces and our name would be known to them for all of our effort in the Ivalice raid series?

The Ivalician raid series is optional content. For reasons that are obvious to most they are likely to remain so. Forcing new players to complete these raids to gain access to an Ivalice-expansion would prove to be an unmitigated disaster unless the raids were nerfed to the level of current Crystal Tower raids. However, the point remains. There is little lost in an extra line explaining who Lente's Tears are and a brief exposition of the Dalmascan Resistance, whose presence was barely felt in the raid series or in Bozja. They do not carry enough relevance.