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  1. #101
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    This introduction would still need to be created by SE. All of that work for people that might not even want to stay if that so called endgame is not that great. I guess if SE notices that the drop of between the start and the newest expansion is too big and that it would financially make more sense to make a new starting point, they will do that. I just dont see it as necessary.

    I also dont really know that many games who have sequels where we play the exact same characters, yet its as if nothing much had happened. Also I am not really sure if expansions are sequels. I count them more as DLCs which you normally cant play without either having done the main game or at least reaching a certain point there.

    Of course I am fine if you see this different. I just see no reason to go beyond what its already existing. 100% not if too much work has to be put behind that and even without that, they could simply give one free jump potion and be done with it.
    (1)

  2. #102
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Alleo View Post
    This introduction would still need to be created by SE. All of that work for people that might not even want to stay if that so called endgame is not that great. I guess if SE notices that the drop of between the start and the newest expansion is too big and that it would financially make more sense to make a new starting point, they will do that. I just dont see it as necessary.

    I also dont really know that many games who have sequels where we play the exact same characters, yet its as if nothing much had happened. Also I am not really sure if expansions are sequels. I count them more as DLCs which you normally cant play without either having done the main game or at least reaching a certain point there.

    Of course I am fine if you see this different. I just see no reason to go beyond what its already existing. 100% not if too much work has to be put behind that and even without that, they could simply give one free jump potion and be done with it.
    I edited so its my fault but I also added that given the MSQ+ system, and perhaps a neat reward behind it, this content would be considered content for everyone not just the people who choose to start the game that way. Like again thinking of Legacy players, we got the 2.0 intro but we also got the 1.0 intro, 2.0 players only got the 2.0 intro (naturally). Now the X.0 players would get that intro but we'd get both or all three given where you started. In this way, and I think what you're thinking is actually correct- this would HAVE to be a quality experience (which means resources) but because we have the system for it.. I don't think those resources are as wasted as they might otherwise have been (as we all can enjoy it). Personally also not seeing this as every single expansion deal, just as the perhaps one time accelerated option- so rather than 400 hours to current it's like 50 (or 100 for the next expansion).

    For the second point I mean picture God of War, you can start the recent one with him having a kid having no clue the absolutely insane things he's done or experiencing the rage bouts that are actually important to the story.. yet you can still 'get' the game. Player isn't lost because they started like 5 games deep. It's true of course the game took this in mind to help remind people, but as I was saying with ShB SE is already doing that because for some players it might have been so long they have to be reminded anyways lol. Now if you had an expansion that knew this in advance of production without too much extra effort in story telling you could ensure everyone is following along (and still reference old stuff, just like God Of War did). I'm sure the next god of war coming out (Ragnarok) can also be played without the previous, even though having the whole son experience would probably help it wouldn't be doom of the game if you didn't have it. I really mean like.. huge epic long tales, this has happened a lot and happened to major products- it's quite common and doesn't have to ruin the content (though I'm sure you could if sloppeh with the story lol, which is why I said 'don't' do that multi-story stuff people were talking about, make it the same story just like most major games do and have done).

    Free potion is basically what WoW does, but I feel like well I already said - seems like throwing someone at the wall and hoping it sticks.. Might, might not, but why would you hope it sticks when you could do something different. While not saying either you get thrown or you complete 6 God of Wars 4, 100% witcher 3s, re-watch friends 3 times, .. etc.. I mean 400 hours is A LOT, and that's a good thing but also a very very large mountain and a huge investment ask that I think will scare away some people and will also ruin the opportunity desires of some people... like if I wanted to join the game to do current game ultimate content that just came out I'd have to absolutely rush the game just so I could be sure I have a higher chance to join one of the parties active, I might be able to do it later too of course but the available pool of players will obviously be much smaller.

    In no way do I think all that story is a waste of space, I just think people who have done it as it is active are not thinking about how insanely large and time intensive of an ask they're asking for from people who are not even sure they're ready to invest yet (like our perspective of pre-invested is not the same as someone who is like "maybe I'll try it, this isn't so bad so far, oh I have 350 more hours to go... oh.. I want to do that content everyone is doing.. oh.. I wont be able to because it'll be dead by the time I get to it... oh.. I... there is another game out....). For the story lovers, FFXIV is always going to be a good option- you don't need to sweeten the deal there lol. Particularly I note here that money is not the only investment, time itself is an investment. Even if you told me the game is free for 500 hours that doesn't mean zero investment cost. If my time has value then the ask itself, even if free, is a large ask in and of itself.. furthermore since people who are joining are probably not joining because it's the first time they heard about ARR.. its because they heard about the new expansion / content - in effect saying they need to go all in on their bet against their future desire.

    Alternatively your post that maybe the game isn't meant for everyone might end up being the right take at the end, but I also believe that it's even more important that SE is going to make plans to make another MMORPG then (not to be released this second, but to give it proper multiple years it takes to make to avoid a 1.0 release again) as they will be intentionally building walls around the garden with no valuable assistance within the walls (potion != valuable, imo). Not saying the game is dead now, just 5 years from now I can only imagine the 550 hours to get current and personally I think that, among other games asking for less investment but offering new and exciting systems that FFXIV mostly can only offer well later in the game, is going to cause FFXIV participation problems. Even then it wont die- probably going to have subscribers in 20 years xD, the game is going to be like FFXI for a long time after the golden light ends, but personally I want SE to always have a golden light MMO out there lol.

    Edit: I am also fine that you see it different . I mean in an alternative take I understand you like the game and want it to do well, and I assume you see the same in my post rather than engaging someone disingenuous for the rick roll. Obviously we are disagreeing on some points but like.. whatever lol, that's really not a big deal.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-02-2022 at 06:49 AM.

  3. #103
    Player
    DPZ2's Avatar
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    Feb 2015
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    2,615
    Character
    Dal S'ta
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Best solution ever:

    Make all 'new' players watch every. single. cutscene. in. the. game (ok, they can skip the end credits ...), and then start at level 90 in the next expansion. 400+ hours (where do people get that idea from? That's nearly two straight months of 8 hour days spent playing the game. Even I don't remember it taking that long) condensed into, what, 50 hours of cutscenes? Win-win!
    (0)

  4. #104
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    Ul'dah
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    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by DPZ2 View Post
    Best solution ever:

    Make all 'new' players watch every. single. cutscene. in. the. game (ok, they can skip the end credits ...), and then start at level 90 in the next expansion. 400+ hours (where do people get that idea from? That's nearly two straight months of 8 hour days spent playing the game. Even I don't remember it taking that long) condensed into, what, 50 hours of cutscenes? Win-win!
    That number only sounds crazy wrong because you've done the content actively, as such the wall has never grown so large (or at least I feel is a general safe assumption for must people posting here). It is relatively accurate number assuming you're not ESC ESC ESC ESC ESC, STOP, SKIP, ESC, and are new / not know what you're doing. Like any of us who replay the game would be drastically faster just because of the foreknowledge.

    400 isn't that aggressive of a number. Many people say around 70-120 hours for ARR alone, given a first time play through (I'm not talking about people who already know what to do), then you can add about 50 hours per expansion after that. 50 being a relatively fair number, as for some people they've also said ~60-70 for some expansions.

    Therefore you have 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 which makes 200 hours and the ARR making it anywhere between 270 to 320 hours. We're discussing 7.0, and so I say 400 (adding another 50 at least, and not wanting to make it sound like exact math) because in the context of this thread the assumption is either we start at 7.0 and hence it's a really fast start of like 10 or less hours to get into content or 7.0 is NOT where the fast start is and therefore you're telling people roughly 400 hours to get to end game.

    Keeping in mind we're also discussing averages. Personally I 100% witcher at around 125 hours, but then I see the average is like 150+.. so /shrug. Another note to keep in mind is that is not 100%'ing everything either, if someone gets distracted, as they should (golden saucer, triple triad, crafting, gathering, different jobs, optional dungeons/fights, etc), with content as they go along, it can obviously impact the play time. 400 is suddenly a fairly fair calculation, imo (some people will be much faster, naturally, some will be much slower - we've to aim somewhere above speed runners / rushing and below people that leave no stone unturned and no quest unchecked). Occasionally I do reference further than 7.0 (like when I said 550).

    As for the solution... chef kiss. Reminds me of when I told my wife I was almost done with Death Stranding and just a wait a bit before we watch a show before bed. Suddenly out of no where a, what feels like, 2 hour cutscene appears... that plan got yeeted.

    Besides lets say 400 was too much to finish 7.0 and join people in the 7.x+ patch experience (or 8.0 for that matter), we want to be far more conservative. 50 for ARR, 30 for each expansion. Still looking at 200 hours (50 + 3.0 (80), 4.0 (110), 5.0 (140), 6.0 (170), 7.0 (200)). You're asking for someone to 'perfect' a game like witcher 3 - 100% no stone unturned, at a slowish pace, in order to do any new content. It's still HUGE. Though I think using 50 and 30's is far too aggressive for averaging as new players who aren't skipping like crazy and not knowing where to go are not going to be super effective with their time, while also being distracted with other side content (like new jobs). Therefore I'd call that a hyper conservative estimate, and some where around 350 - 400 more like the average person (not the average account, because the average account includes players who own multiple accounts).

    So back to your point, exactly 8 hours a day for two months. Holy cow, amirite? Even if we used the, what I think is highly inaccurate, lowball 200.. that's still an entire month of 8 hours a day (25 days). So.. exactly my point. It's not horrible that stuff exists, for many that's AWESOME NEWs. But for others that's going to be like "NOPE! HOLY NOPE!" and for those of us who are playing the game actively the appearance of that wall has never really matured and so I think many are coming at this with a skewed perspective (imo, since the wall never developed all the way for them). We've eaten away at the task overtime in enjoyable bite sizes like a slow and steady tortoise, the rabbit is going to get rofl stomped by the force of it however. Also I should add that the 8 hours a day example, which I like, and I don't think you meant this either, isn't the goal for people to complete the game in lol - people should be able to play at a far more relaxing pace (unless that is your relaxing and time available pace... in which case.. good for you..). For example I have about 2-4 hours a week to easily spare so it would take me nearly a third of the year to just generally catch up in the MSQ, if I was new,... that's not even doing other things lol.
    (1)
    Last edited by Shougun; 03-02-2022 at 08:08 AM.

  5. #105
    Player
    Zaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
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    381
    Character
    Zaniel Taephen
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mapleine View Post
    They can revamp ARR until it's blinding in its mediocrity but I will not be able to get any new players interested with a mandatory five JRPGs worth of story before multiplayer kicks in. It's too much.

    If people solely want a single player game, they aren't going to settle for a mangled MMO version of one that has such outrageous demands. They will go play a single player game with better graphics, polish and more accessible gameplay.
    Your statement is in direct conflict with reality, this game has seen explosive uptake in player numbers and the vast majority of those people are praising the fact it has a long and intricate story mode. Most WoW refugees are here because this ISN'T WoW with its emphasis on end game and grind and because it has a good story.

    You're dreaming a false narrative almost as imaginative as Eorzea itself.
    (3)

  6. #106
    Player
    DiaDeem's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    1,679
    Character
    Vivian Rysto
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    You know who would really love being able to just hop into the newest area with no cost or effort? RMT sellers.

    Either way... you're aware that by then people will be able to just buy an Endwalker skip and go straight into 7.0 if they want, right?
    (3)

  7. #107
    Player
    Eriane_Elis's Avatar
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    Apr 2018
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    583
    Character
    Eriane Elis
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    No because this is an RPG like it or not and there's no need to reach end-game right away. You could pay to skip the story, yes... But why would you spend so much money just to skip one of the best stories in RPG history? You can still play with your friends, I don't understand that excuse because you will need to learn how to properly play your class before reaching harder and harder content. In an ideal world, you wouldn't be allowed to story skip or level skip your class but it's free money for SE so they allow it. There's no guarantee that the 7.0 story will be any better than the ARR - Endwalker storyline and assuming it will be is the equivalent of counting your chicks before the eggs hatch.

    People need to just enjoy the game and not complain that there's nothing to do when they used a story and level skipper lol
    (1)

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