Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Sebazy]

Here's hoping that threads such as these eventually force Yoshida's team to accept that there is a fundamental design issue with healers.

Sitting there pressing the same button 100-150 times per ~10 minute pull is not an acceptable gameplay loop in such a prestigious game. It's just embarrassing that they can't come up with better given the scale and budget of this title TBH.

As an ex world builder for some pretty significant studios, it's like building a great arena and then filling it with crates because I can't be bothered to think of anything better. Sad.

I get it, they tried lowering the skill floor and ceiling to get more people playing the role. But the reality is that people don't stick to healer unless they main/career it. And that last demographic has slowly been pushed further and further away from the role because of the design choices.

Pretty much this. E8S as a healer just sucked all of the enjoyment I had playing this game away. I flat out refuse to touch that turn now. Not because it's particularly challenging, but because it's the most mind numbing experience I've ever had in an MMO even compared to the likes of raiding VT in Everquest.

[MoofiaBossVal]

Maybe the devs should design engaging content that doesn't come out once every 2 years.

[Liam_Harper]

What's also annoying is that Sage was advertised by Yoshida as the healer to play if you wanted more dps.

In reality toxicon is a very limited use Ruin II, Kardia is just Embrace that you get from doing what you always do, Phlegma is a 45 sec cooldown like Assize and Pneuma isn't a dps button, it's a heal cooldown. Basically Sage didn't get more buttons at all. It's just Dosis spam.

Things like "go play Sage lol" or "go play Ultimate lol" when we bring up the fact we aren't having fun is just insulting. Those have nothing to do with class engagement or fun. Every time we bring up our feedback, we get a dismissive response that's completely off the mark. The development team is amazing in many ways, but for some reason when it comes to healers there's almost a Blizzard level of arrogance with "you think you want it, but you don't" from a team with almost no experience in that role.

[Rika007]

What's also annoying is that Sage was advertised by Yoshida as the healer to play if you wanted more dps.

In reality toxicon is a very limited use Ruin II, Kardia is just Embrace that you get from doing what you always do, Phlegma is a 45 sec cooldown like Assize and Pneuma isn't a dps button, it's a heal cooldown. Basically Sage didn't get more buttons at all. It's just Dosis spam.

Things like "go play Sage lol" or "go play Ultimate lol" when we bring up the fact we aren't having fun is just insulting. Those have nothing to do with class engagement or fun. Every time we bring up our feedback, we get a dismissive response that's completely off the mark. The development team is amazing in many ways, but for some reason when it comes to healers there's almost a Blizzard level of arrogance with "you think you want it, but you don't" from a team with almost no experience in that role.

Very well put. I truly do think that it isn't them being bad faith, as they do a great job in so many places, it honestly just feels like they really don't get it, and this is one of the few things with the community that they have completely misread.

Unfortunately for the devs, this community has proven to never shut up about something once they lock onto it, and the issues with healer are finally starting to take a true center stage. The calls for a change are only gonna get louder the longer they dont acknowledge it.

[technole]

What's also annoying is that Sage was advertised by Yoshida as the healer to play if you wanted more dps.

In reality toxicon is a very limited use Ruin II, Kardia is just Embrace that you get from doing what you always do, Phlegma is a 45 sec cooldown like Assize and Pneuma isn't a dps button, it's a heal cooldown. Basically Sage didn't get more buttons at all. It's just Dosis spam.

Things like "go play Sage lol" or "go play Ultimate lol" when we bring up the fact we aren't having fun is just insulting. Those have nothing to do with class engagement or fun. Every time we bring up our feedback, we get a dismissive response that's completely off the mark. The development team is amazing in many ways, but for some reason when it comes to healers there's almost a Blizzard level of arrogance with "you think you want it, but you don't" from a team with almost no experience in that role.

It's not even really "more" DPS either, their numbers are similar to a good White Mage and comes out just barely ahead. YoshiP always makes several responses about healers that hadn't lived up to the hype. SHb it was we are delaying another healer so we can re-balance them. If anything it started the great healer dissipation. Role got stale for many. Raid groups usually were looking for a shield healer to go 8/8 more than any other job.

Toxicon is ok because it's an AoE weaving tool (provided you got the stack in downtime so it's not a DPS loss). Would be outcry if the job got two aoe buttons with no cooldown aspect compared to the other 3. But that's the crux of the issue people have too. The devs have some feelings about how many active DPS buttons are available, and if they got over their 1 always-active aoe and 1 active skill they could make it more interesting with all healers.

[Corbeau]

Healer situation is messed up. There's a reason I've mained everything except healer in savage despite playing healer in every other MMO that I've ever played.

[Minarisweet]

Healer situation is messed up. There's a reason I've mained everything except healer in savage despite playing healer in every other MMO that I've ever played.

Yeah I stopped healing and only pick up either sage or whm when I want to completely brain off stuff, support roles aren't this boring anywhere else.

[AngeliouxRein]

What's also annoying is that Sage was advertised by Yoshida as the healer to play if you wanted more dps.

In reality toxicon is a very limited use Ruin II, Kardia is just Embrace that you get from doing what you always do, Phlegma is a 45 sec cooldown like Assize and Pneuma isn't a dps button, it's a heal cooldown. Basically Sage didn't get more buttons at all. It's just Dosis spam.

Things like "go play Sage lol" or "go play Ultimate lol" when we bring up the fact we aren't having fun is just insulting. Those have nothing to do with class engagement or fun. Every time we bring up our feedback, we get a dismissive response that's completely off the mark. The development team is amazing in many ways, but for some reason when it comes to healers there's almost a Blizzard level of arrogance with "you think you want it, but you don't" from a team with almost no experience in that role.

Ugh …

That’s honestly the most aggravating thing that was said about healers. The amount of hype they tried to place on SGE for it to be the ultimate job for those of us wanting DPS… not like we all couldn’t see it from a mile away watching people play it but man… I just don’t get why they are treating healers the way they are. They wanted us to heal more but when we had less heals back then, that was the time I felt I was healing a lot more. Even with all the dots and card manipulation. MSQ was actually fun to go through as well on healers… I don’t know what feedback they got about healers over the years that somehow translated into what we have now but wow… not even f2p games treated healers this way. Making me miss all the Korean and Chinese mmorpg I used to play…

[Semirhage]

"Healer Legend doesn't take role skill" is a zero credibility argument.

Zero skill? No. There's finesse involved in healing an Ultimate, especially during progression. Mechanics happen more quickly so you need to be on your toes if you don't have the timing down.

An actual healer check? As Grim said, not a chance. Ultimate mechanics are tuned such that they nearly all kill you as a punishment for failing in the slightest. Sometimes in a Raiseable way (which is not a healer check, it's a rezbot check), often in a way that kills all eight of you for one person's mistake. Ultimate isn't a test of *healer* skill, it's a test of mechanical execution. And on top of that execution, healing still manages to be the least engaging role there.

The last time I recleared UWU with friends was a sloppy clear. There were deaths and we barely made enrage. I shouldered the bulk of healing and got in the 99th percentile for HPS: I was likely overhealing to hell and back just to make sure that Ninja was absolutely full before those Ultima casts. I had a ton of GCD heal casts and abused Cure 3 likely far more than I needed to. My damage output was statistically very low for that clear.

And you know what? I casted Stone 4 several HUNDRED times during that pull. I spent the absolute majority of my time in there going Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Aero Tetra Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone. I wanted to rip my 1 key off my keyboard after that fight. My group had the weapons they wanted after that clear. I looked at my casts and realized that if my group were to clean up and reclear more times? If I were to get my healing more streamlined, better planned with my cohealer? I'd be rewarded with spamming Stone even more.

Even Ultimate content manages to make healing blow in FFXIV. It's the content that's difficult, not the role.

[ASkellington]

Zero skill? No. There's finesse involved in healing an Ultimate, especially during progression. Mechanics happen more quickly so you need to be on your toes if you don't have the timing down.

An actual healer check? As Grim said, not a chance. Ultimate mechanics are tuned such that they nearly all kill you as a punishment for failing in the slightest. Sometimes in a Raiseable way (which is not a healer check, it's a rezbot check), often in a way that kills all eight of you for one person's mistake. Ultimate isn't a test of *healer* skill, it's a test of mechanical execution. And on top of that execution, healing still manages to be the least engaging role there.

The last time I recleared UWU with friends was a sloppy clear. There were deaths and we barely made enrage. I shouldered the bulk of healing and got in the 99th percentile for HPS: I was likely overhealing to hell and back just to make sure that Ninja was absolutely full before those Ultima casts. I had a ton of GCD heal casts and abused Cure 3 likely far more than I needed to. My damage output was statistically very low for that clear.

And you know what? I casted Stone 4 several HUNDRED times during that pull. I spent the absolute majority of my time in there going Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Aero Tetra Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone Stone. I wanted to rip my 1 key off my keyboard after that fight. My group had the weapons they wanted after that clear. I looked at my casts and realized that if my group were to clean up and reclear more times? If I were to get my healing more streamlined, better planned with my cohealer? I'd be rewarded with spamming Stone even more.

Even Ultimate content manages to make healing blow in FFXIV. It's the content that's difficult, not the role.

(to Echo this) Like I said, content doesn't take into account the healing tools we have individually as healers (as in what AST/SGE/WHM/SCH alone does) let alone with 2.

It doesn't even take into account what TANK tools we have if we want to be really honest. How many fights in the game have a tank swap?