Please grow the MMO part of the game. End game is lousy.

[KizuyaKatogami]

It is not SE's job to babysit adults. SE is hardly "exploiting" anyone, nor is this even remotely a predatory thing. Adults need to take responsibility for their actions and choices. If owning a house in a virtual game that you hate is truly that important to you, that's a you thing and there is nothing SE could do to fix it.

Moreover, I have yet to encounter even a single person who was so addicted to owning a virtual house in this or ANY game, yet hated everything else and couldn't walk away.

I HAVE met over a dozen that let their house lapse and regretted it later, but nobody nerd raged over it.

This convo moreso stems from someone saying SE respects the players time, when that clearly isn’t true with the way the housing system was designed where you need to stand at a placard for hours clicking it just to hope for a house and doing nothing about the bots. It took them how many years now? 6+ i think just to come up with a secondary system. It is pretty exploiting, especially when yoshi p has gone on record saying the reason they stopped giving out veteran rewards is because they don’t want people to feel the need to stay subbed…yet the housing system is the way it is lol.

[ReynTime]

Its more so that people must really love this game to want to stay "addicted" if people are complaining about "lack of content" otherwise why try to justify your time and subscription when all these years they've been stuck with the philosophy of "Come and get your fill, then come back for some more later" design? Ive been stating this in multiple threads by now but I doubt most of the playerbase already completed all the side quests, mount farms, Eureka, Bozja, Triple Triad cards, FATE grinds, Beast Tribes, emote collecting/Firmament, Relic weapons, Glams, Housing, RP, *cough* erp *cough* etc. There's plenty of old content that's still relevant or appealing for people to go back and do. How about we first finish our plate before asking for more? Me personally Ive been playing this game very casually and even though Ive already finished the MSQ, I'm still putting in time to finish up older content and so far has been enough for me to keep busy while I wait for 6.1

Now I know not everyone is interested in being a completionist or doing everything listed here, but at the very least acknowledge that this stuff is still here for people to do while we wait for new stuff (which people seem to just ignore the fact that there was even a roadmap shown in the live letter).

This argument is utter nonsense.
What is the one type of mandatory content that locks everything else in game?

That's right. The PvE combat. So it stands to reason that why, no matter how many minigames, lifesim fluff and gpose centric frill they add, people are still unhappy about the current endgame cycle. They like to market this as more than just the duties, but at the end of the day they're the ones locking literally everything behind mandatory pve/dungeons/story. THEY KNOW that's the "core" of any japanese RPG, online or not: Reading/watching, exploring, fighting. It shouldn't be confusing or surprising stuff like fishing, triple triad, housing and yes even glamour isn't considered a serious answer to the question of endgame.

[ZedxKayn]

It is not SE's job to babysit adults. SE is hardly "exploiting" anyone, nor is this even remotely a predatory thing. Adults need to take responsibility for their actions and choices. If owning a house in a virtual game that you hate is truly that important to you, that's a you thing and there is nothing SE could do to fix it.

Moreover, I have yet to encounter even a single person who was so addicted to owning a virtual house in this or ANY game, yet hated everything else and couldn't walk away.

I HAVE met over a dozen that let their house lapse and regretted it later, but nobody nerd raged over it.

But it is predatory as hell. There's unique content locked behind housing (namely gardening, fc rooms, and the company workshop), housing is advertised as one of the key contents alongside the story, glamour and combat, yet it's locked behind placard camping, scarcity, and a required subscription? There's no excuse for that. It's not on the player.

You don't lose levels, glam pieces or pages when you unsub, and no one would ever find that acceptable if the devs told you to unsub if you don't want to play the game, but also taking away things you worked for in your playtime.

It pressures people to stay subbed because housing is usually a ton of time spent on the game earning the gil to buy and decorate it, ward browsing and placard spamming, and it can also be a massive amount of luck depending on the plot they had. Most predatories practice have the victim pay out of their own volition, and housing is no exception.

[Ixon]

But it is predatory as hell. There's unique content locked behind housing (namely gardening, fc rooms, and the company workshop), housing is advertised as one of the key contents alongside the story, glamour and combat, yet it's locked behind placard camping, scarcity, and a required subscription? There's no excuse for that. It's not on the player.

You don't lose levels, glam pieces or pages when you unsub, and no one would ever find that acceptable if the devs told you to unsub if you don't want to play the game, but also taking away things you worked for in your playtime.

It pressures people to stay subbed because housing is usually a ton of time spent on the game earning the gil to buy and decorate it, ward browsing and placard spamming, and it can also be a massive amount of luck depending on the plot they had. Most predatories practice have the victim pay out of their own volition, and housing is no exception.

You do realize that the entire reason why they even added demolition in the first place was because there were no more houses available in game? That's it. You ASSUME there was is a predatory reason, when the real reason is they can only add as many houses as their hardware allows, so they added in demolition for people who do not play the game anymore to give those that do a chance at a house until they can add more. Which they have. They have been slowly adding more and more plots and are adding another new district this expansion.

[Lunalepsy]

I grew a bit bothered seeing the heavy discussion about wooing offline players and revamping all the content to appeal to holdouts.

I have many friends I'd like to bring into the game, but it will never happen. The mere fact that this game connects to public spaces with open chat makes it a no go for most of those types. This is kind of a lot of resources to dedicate to things.

Meanwhile, many years later, our entire end game is still six total encounters, for half a year. The lack of growth is, as always, pretty disappointing. I really figured by this point we'd have more meaningful dungeons or at least a few more bosses at launch.

I'm not much of a malcontent here, I don't want large changes or weird mandatory grinds. I love the game, I love the combat and flow of it all, I just want a bit more to do (especially early expansion). I don't even really care about rewards, I just wanna play more and keep my friends who DO like MMOs interested longer.

This game is for the faint of heart. We can't have those things here!

[kaynide]

This convo moreso stems from someone saying SE respects the players time, when that clearly isn’t true with the way the housing system was designed where you need to stand at a placard for hours clicking it just to hope for a house and doing nothing about the bots. It took them how many years now? 6+ i think just to come up with a secondary system. It is pretty exploiting, especially when yoshi p has gone on record saying the reason they stopped giving out veteran rewards is because they don’t want people to feel the need to stay subbed…yet the housing system is the way it is lol.

They do respect your time; if you're actively playing the game vs someone not playing, they want you to have a shot at a house without having to play 6 months straight just for a chance...you think it's fair that the first 100 or so people who played once upon a time but quit should keep their houses? Or just check in once a year?

We asked for this problem.

I've had this conversation before, nearly every expansion, but it bears repeating:

The problem is more about the company waffling and giving into pressure from players.

Originally, housing was meant to be for FCs only; no personal housing options. Also it was meant to be very very expensive with some distant future plan for individual housing. We are talking a large house was as much/over as 600 million gil in some cases. It was never meant to have as much demand as it does today.

The player base asked for it to be lower and for it to be more open to all players and ultimately that’s the decision the devs took.

The housing excuse vs casual gameplay is not really valid;

Originally housing was not meant to be for individual players but for FCs, so if a specific player wasn't on, as long as someone else was the house is fine. The only reason we have personal housing is because the devs caved to player wishes.

So, yes, while that is on the devs, the player base has to accept responsibility for this. We wanted this, so we have to accept the consequences, even if the devs are ultimately at fault for what I'd say was a bad call.

But it is predatory as hell.

It's foolishness to call something predatory when it is essentially the devs giving us exactly what we asked for.

This is no where near some other games having you pay real cash money for loot boxes for the maybe-kinda-sorta chance to get a maybe-kinda-sorta cool skin or fancy weapon.

..or do you want to try out Star Citizen where you need to shell out $1,000 or so for a space yacht that you can fly around all by yourself in their MMO where you never meet other real people?

--

Even if the Island Sanctuary solves all of this, there will still be people complaining because "but omgerd I wanted a house in a district with real neighbors!!!11"

[ZedxKayn]

People're asking for instanced housing.

Lootboxes don't lock gameplay elements away if you don't pay for them regularly. Housing is far more predatory than lootboxes. The mental gymnastics to defend the indefensible are incredible.

[Ixon]

People're asking for instanced housing.

Lootboxes don't lock gameplay elements away if you don't pay for them regularly. Housing is far more predatory than lootboxes. The mental gymnastics to defend the indefensible are incredible.

Just join a FC that has people logging in? I do not understand how you are missing the fact that demolition was put in to FREE up plots by removing them from people who do not even play the game. They want to add more plots, hence why they are adding a whole new district in Ishgard, and why they have been periodically adding wards as the can allow. If it was truly predatory like you say they would have less houses with a higher restriction, or make you pay an extra amount per month. If you want to call anything SE does predatory, start with certain items in the cash shop or extra retainers. I am curious how would YOU tackle the limited housing issue if not the path that SE chose?

[kaynide]

People're asking for instanced housing.

Lootboxes don't lock gameplay elements away if you don't pay for them regularly. Housing is far more predatory than lootboxes. The mental gymnastics to defend the indefensible are incredible.

And I’m not sure why you can’t understand that the devs have been doing everything in their power to make getting a house as fair as possible for everyone, including acquiescing to the players base’s not-well-thought-out requests. They even have gone as far as dumping Mogstation profits purely into purchasing more housing wards, and have continually tried to add more wards as possible, even during a time where chips are crazy expensive.

Furthermore, they are clearly working on something to alleviate content lock in the form of Island Sanctuary. At the very least it will be gardening.

What about all of that is indefensible?

If this were truly predatory it would be like many other games that nickel and dime DLC or the aforementioned loot boxes. This is not even close.

[ZedxKayn]

Just join a FC that has people logging in? I do not understand how you are missing the fact that demolition was put in to FREE up plots by removing them from people who do not even play the game. They want to add more plots, hence why they are adding a whole new district in Ishgard, and why they have been periodically adding wards as the can allow. If it was truly predatory like you say they would have less houses with a higher restriction, or make you pay an extra amount per month. If you want to call anything SE does predatory, start with certain items in the cash shop or extra retainers. I am curious how would YOU tackle the limited housing issue if not the path that SE chose?

By not making housing limited in the first place lmfao

Joining an active FC does not open gardening or the company workshop to the player unless they get some really good standing with the leads.

How things came to be that way is irrelevant, the current housing situation is predatory as hell. They could've kept housing FC only, or could've made private housing instanced, but how shortsighted did they have to be to make housing purchasable by FCs and individuals while keeping it limited?

I'm also openly against the retainer system btw. But don't deflect, this is about housing being a slimy system. And I've said all I have to say in the matter anyways. It's blatantly predatory and denying it is just drinking kool-aid.