Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Aikaal]

Well during the Q&A section. Yoshi P did say even if our job wasn’t mentioned they are reading and listening to the feedback and they are hearing us. So let’s see in 6.1 how much they have heard us and listened.

Yeah, this is good but what SMN needs isn't just potency buffs. If the desync of the rotation on rebuff windows is bad right now. Wait until 6.11 ultimate where your team will have to either carry more DPS because you need to hold Bahamut for the next phase or enjoy just desyncing your big burst window during rebuff windows. You need need an extremely odd amount of Spell Speed to make it work and it's just gonna be a mess.

Meanwhile you will have no control on your Phoenix healing buffs providing little help to your healers while RDM can easily pop Magick Barrier on demand. Not to mention that raise, sadly, in ultimate does provide higher value because who really cares about gold logs in ultimates. The achievement is the kill and when you got the kill.

I do know they are seeing the SMN concerns, I'm just thinking 6.1 isn't gonna be enough time and it's a work in progress for the whole expansion. I do think in 7.0 SMN will me MUCH better but I kinda gave up for 6.x unless they pull some sort of miracle.

[MellowMink]

I don’t like this idea of “well just wait until the next expansion” as a simple response to criticism if someone wants interface improvements to a job sooner rather than later; y’all are aware that just casually asking someone to wait for more than two years isn’t just a minor wait time, right?

[Aikaal]

I don’t like this idea of “well just wait until the next expansion” as a simple response to criticism if someone wants interface improvements to a job sooner rather than later; y’all are aware that just casually asking someone to wait for more than two years isn’t just a minor wait time, right?

Yeah, I do not like it but let's be realistic here. They don't have many dev working on job balancing. They have priorities. WHM and MCH are in much dire situation. Dragon Kick Monk is an atrocity. They just released the new SMN and they recently found out the gameplay in raid isn't feeling good at all. They can just buff potencies but having a rework done after 3 months on a complete rework doesn't sound feasible. Maybe they can do some stuff like removing certain restrictions. That would be already much better to have gems untied to Phoenix and Bahamut. It would be fantastic that Searing Light comes from the SMN and it would be great if Phoenix healing spells were standing alone buttons like Magick Barrier.

But things like raise being an issue. The oversimplicity of the job and the lack of engagement to optimize will still be present. SMN will most likely still have the overly simple gameplay and that's unlikely going to change until 7.0

[Rolder50]

Yeah, I do not like it but let's be realistic here. They don't have many dev working on job balancing. They have priorities. WHM and MCH are in much dire situation. Dragon Kick Monk is an atrocity. They just released the new SMN and they recently found out the gameplay in raid isn't feeling good at all. They can just buff potencies but having a rework done after 3 months on a complete rework doesn't sound feasible. Maybe they can do some stuff like removing certain restrictions. That would be already much better to have gems untied to Phoenix and Bahamut. It would be fantastic that Searing Light comes from the SMN and it would be great if Phoenix healing spells were standing alone buttons like Magick Barrier.

But things like raise being an issue. The oversimplicity of the job and the lack of engagement to optimize will still be present. SMN will most likely still have the overly simple gameplay and that's unlikely going to change until 7.0

At the same time, two of the three higher priority things you listed are relatively simple to fix. WHM: Increase Misery potency, reduce some MP Costs somewhere or change thin air. Dragon Kick Monk: Literally just -10 potency on Dragon Kick and +10 on Snap Punch or something like that. MCH is the more complicated fix, but unless we're talking big kit revisions, you could also just slap some potency on a few of their main abilities and call it a day.

[aveyond-dreams]

I don’t like this idea of “well just wait until the next expansion” as a simple response to criticism if someone wants interface improvements to a job sooner rather than later; y’all are aware that just casually asking someone to wait for more than two years isn’t just a minor wait time, right?

This was quite literally the case with various jobs like the infamous Bowmage fiasco, Stormblood White Mage somehow managing to be even worse than the post-Shadowbringers healer role changes, and so on. Things get fixed and sometimes they break and then are fixed again. Round and round we go.

Compared to the 8 years that Summoner was in the state it was in, only 2 years of waiting before new summons/abilities is a mercy.

It is one thing to hear something and another to listen.

They should have kept the DoTs and let us summon and manage DoTs. That would have been fine but I have a feeling they removed DoTs so they can stick them on a new job and call it new.

I love these sorts of posts. In any case whether or not 7.0 adds a DoT caster is completely up in the air-they seem to like nice round numbers so it would not surprise me if they decided to ignore this request due to the presence of Blue Mage taking up unnecessary space in the caster role, and add in a ranged dps instead. An efficient solution however would be to repurpose Blue Mage as a DoT caster, and finally free it from the shackles of its limited status.

[Rolder50]

You know now that I think about it, if they took Endwalker summoner, added back Bio, Miasma, Bane, Tridisaster, and put back on Fester's extra damage with dots effect, it'd be in a much better spot.

[Myon88]

I don't know, I have a feeling they moving more and more away from DoTs. Look at brd now, none of their kit now interacts with their dots and I wouldn't be surprised in 7.0 they get rid of those also. I just have this feeling they don't want to deal with dots and deal with the fact mobs/bosses have this hard debuff limition. We see I guess tho. Personally, I would love to see a true DoT mage be added in 7.0.

I'd like to see the knots people tie themselves into to justify removing bard dots of all things.

They're ranger-types strongly associated with the forest, where you'll find all kinds of venomous creatures. Bows aren't particularly powerful weapons on their own, and in combat they are characterized as scouts and harriers, in this context it makes perfect sense to augment your attacks with guile and venom. The military organization of the city they're based in is called the Twin Adders, and their new weaponskill 'Ladonsbite' is named, as you might guess, after a mythological serpent.

In short you'll have to do some serious whitewashing of the entire job from level 1 if you want to scrub all connections it has to dot effects.

[Mondschnee]

Personally, I don't really want dots back in the old form, as they don't fit the concept anymore at all. If dots are being added, I'd hope for some type of elemental dots that fit the theme better. Overall, there could be better ways to add depth to SMN than dots though. I've seen some good suggestions spread across multiple threads and on the JP forum as well, so I won't add any more to those. I just hope the SMN designer gives their best and they implement changes before 7.0 :')

[SaberMaxwell]

Yeah, this is good but what SMN needs isn't just potency buffs. If the desync of the rotation on rebuff windows is bad right now. Wait until 6.11 ultimate where your team will have to either carry more DPS because you need to hold Bahamut for the next phase or enjoy just desyncing your big burst window during rebuff windows. You need need an extremely odd amount of Spell Speed to make it work and it's just gonna be a mess.

Meanwhile you will have no control on your Phoenix healing buffs providing little help to your healers while RDM can easily pop Magick Barrier on demand. Not to mention that raise, sadly, in ultimate does provide higher value because who really cares about gold logs in ultimates. The achievement is the kill and when you got the kill.

I do know they are seeing the SMN concerns, I'm just thinking 6.1 isn't gonna be enough time and it's a work in progress for the whole expansion. I do think in 7.0 SMN will me MUCH better but I kinda gave up for 6.x unless they pull some sort of miracle.

If dragonsong is like tea, raise is worthless.

[KroLeXz]

At the end some of are happy and some are not. For majority of main smners, none of them would have taken this deal if it meant falling lower in output. This was bad class design; you alienated a portion of the actual player base that played smner to appease a majority of players that didn't main smner. The right way would have been to keep the class contribution the same and add complexity to justify it. No one asked at any time to become the caster equivalent of a physical range class.