Summoner rework is a huge dissapointment

[Ggwppino]

So I think I’ll continue calling out ideas I do not like. I think the people wanting to needlessly complicate the present design with straight up busywork are wrong, and I think people who want to bring back stuff from old SMN are completely out of touch. I’m not particularly sympathetic to either party, and no amount of appeals to emotion or the preferred tactic of these crowds-hot takes and gatcha moments, will ever be able to convince me of otherwise. I do want to see new stuff added, like the missing summons and more along those lines. I think most of the ideas espoused in these threads are bad, apart from the absolute necessity to move elemental mastery traits to earlier levels.

I don't think it's a problem of complication, but more of completeness. For example, I am convinced that the rework has taken the right path, giving a true identity to smn and opening the doors of new summons. But currently it is a fact that something is missing, most of all the presence of ogcds: how many times have you been unable to do anything? I always. We have 3 free ogcds and they are used rightly in the burst phases then the only ogcds are those of titan that are truly related to titan. In previous posts you can see how the criticisms are constructive and not just complaints: some users even posted pictures and analyzes to affirm their thoughts when discussing situational heal. Doesn't punch a complaint must be useless and frankly I think it's okay to complain about a job you care about for the sake of improving it, not for the sake of being a hater. I personally believe, as previously written in some posts before, that smn is not a complete job to be a class at 90 due to the lack of ogcds (in the lego phases and especially in the garuda phase), and for the lack of choice on pulling their heals by tying them to rotation mechanics. Others rightly think that even ifrit is a problem: both as a non-gratifying dps output and the lack of being able to do slidecasting. This is not necessarily to be haters but to give your own thoughts and contribute with feedback that may or may not be useful, but it is right to give it.

[zcrash970]

Yeah, I'm completely looking forward to the new ultimate because that will by far show how flawed and incompete the current smn is(if they don't address it before 6.11). Ultimates usually require a job to be somewhat flexible and adjust their rotations around. Current smn cant does that without hurting its own dps, so let's see how current smn works in a ultimate fight. Tho you have been very clear you don't care, you said yourself you only do savage for glam and for the mount so tbh I don't think very highly of your options on high-end content and smn state in that. So continue to play with your legos in EXs and normal content. I am so done with you, you are a closed-minded troll who only cares about your own enjoyment and not the health of the job in all types of content. You offer nothing to a discussion and are only here to tell ppl who are unhappy their wrong to feel unhappy. You even went so far in one post basically saying you want to silence ppl comments by saying "It's long past the time to move on from this topic" After this post, I WILL adding you to my ignore list so I don't have to see your bad takes again.

Jesus Christ thank you! I didn't even know there was an ignore list for this sub
That moron/troll is the biggest annoyance on these forums. Never adds anything useful, no useful opinions, no new perspectives. Just a mouthpiece for shitposts and telling everyone they are wrong about everything

[XmissionsX]

Jesus Christ thank you! I didn't even know there was an ignore list for this sub
That moron/troll is the biggest annoyance on these forums. Never adds anything useful, no useful opinions, no new perspectives. Just a mouthpiece for shitposts and telling everyone they are wrong about everything

Yeah that person is also on my ignore list it cleans up the discussion nicely as the message is always the same and never contributes anything to the discussion.

[aveyond-dreams]

If nothing else some of the reactions here offer a truly unique perspective. I agree with the thing on Ifrit-just as there are several universally agreed upon things that could be tweaked. But forgive me if I can't be bothered to take some of the alleged feedback from the top 1% players seriously. "Concerned for the health of the job" please.

Yeah, compared to the past Summoner's health never been better! More will come when they get around to it, hopefully with some qol fixes in the mix. Anyway good luck in ultimate! May you get your glam weapons soon!

[Kulve]

I don't think it's a problem of complication, but more of completeness. For example, I am convinced that the rework has taken the right path, giving a true identity to smn and opening the doors of new summons. But currently it is a fact that something is missing, most of all the presence of ogcds: how many times have you been unable to do anything? I always. We have 3 free ogcds and they are used rightly in the burst phases then the only ogcds are those of titan that are truly related to titan. In previous posts you can see how the criticisms are constructive and not just complaints: some users even posted pictures and analyzes to affirm their thoughts when discussing situational heal. Doesn't punch a complaint must be useless and frankly I think it's okay to complain about a job you care about for the sake of improving it, not for the sake of being a hater. I personally believe, as previously written in some posts before, that smn is not a complete job to be a class at 90 due to the lack of ogcds (in the lego phases and especially in the garuda phase), and for the lack of choice on pulling their heals by tying them to rotation mechanics. Others rightly think that even ifrit is a problem: both as a non-gratifying dps output and the lack of being able to do slidecasting. This is not necessarily to be haters but to give your own thoughts and contribute with feedback that may or may not be useful, but it is right to give it.

This pretty much sums it up. The job was forgotten from the team focusing on Reaper and it painfully shows when you play it for 50+ hours. Allow me to echo the main points and add a few myself.

No real flexibility with the legos that are just purely GCD actions outside of Titan (and even that is too straightforward).
Fixed "utility" in a dps rotation makes meaningful use of them impossible and forces the encounter team to design around it if they want it to have any impact.
Searing Light is still a pet command that can be ghosted and makes the opener super clunky when not responsive 80% of the time. Why this still hasn't been made a player action since ever is infuriating.
Demi's are one dimensional, no longer have that impact that they should, and the heavy dps they do offer is not earned but given with no proper build up.
ED/Fester/PainFlare/Ruin4 have are completely disconnected from the kit.
No meaningful resources to manage that every dps job has.
Very little room for failure and not a high enough ceiling to enjoy mastering.

I've been reading as many posts and threads on this job and the consensus is this job was released as an unfinished product. This is a foundation that shows it can be something to make SMN a very fun and meaningful job to play at all skill levels, but this was done at the wrong time with two new jobs and one of them getting the majority of the resources. It's painfully obvious when you see how other jobs got snubbed as well (DRK Enhanced Unmend, MCH Chainsaw).

[MellowMink]

Given how many jobs are in this game I choose to not spend my time moaning about the ones I don't like nonstop. I *move on* and do more enjoyable things.

My point earlier in my last reply (that with all due respect felt partly ignored) is that it’s frankly kind of hypocritical to ask people who don’t like the newer Summoner changes to just move on and stop complaining altogether while you continuously leave a large amount of posts across multiple threads about your dislike for Blue Mage despite many others on these forums preferring its (to them) currently flexible design, whether that be its ability to play as any combat role, its fun variety of spell effects, how the spells are uniquely learned, being able to select a subset of spells for a more specific play-style, or so on.

If there’s nothing wrong with you continuously complaining about Blue Mage, then it should also be totally fine for some people here to speak against the newer Summoner design, and I say that as someone who still has a pretty good amount of fun with Summoner despite wanting changes in specific areas.

[SweetPete]

Well during the Q&A section. Yoshi P did say even if our job wasn’t mentioned they are reading and listening to the feedback and they are hearing us. So let’s see in 6.1 how much they have heard us and listened.

[MagiusNecros]

It is one thing to hear something and another to listen.

They should have kept the DoTs and let us summon and manage DoTs. That would have been fine but I have a feeling they removed DoTs so they can stick them on a new job and call it new.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It is one thing to hear something and another to listen.

They should have kept the DoTs and let us summon and manage DoTs. That would have been fine but I have a feeling they removed DoTs so they can stick them on a new job and call it new.

I don't know, I have a feeling they moving more and more away from DoTs. Look at brd now, none of their kit now interacts with their dots and I wouldn't be surprised in 7.0 they get rid of those also. I just have this feeling they don't want to deal with dots and deal with the fact mobs/bosses have this hard debuff limition. We see I guess tho. Personally, I would love to see a true DoT mage be added in 7.0.

[tearagion]

I don't know, I have a feeling they moving more and more away from DoTs. Look at brd now, none of their kit now interacts with their dots and I wouldn't be surprised in 7.0 they get rid of those also. I just have this feeling they don't want to deal with dots and deal with the fact mobs/bosses have this hard debuff limition. We see I guess tho. Personally, I would love to see a true DoT mage be added in 7.0.

They don't seem to consider the debuff limit too heavily seeing as their shiny new melee DPS has a 100% uptime vuln-up debuff that doesn't interact with the rest of the kit. Seems like a waste of a precious slot to me, but I guess it's not as vital as many past debuffs.