Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[ASkellington]

Dear Yoshi P,

"Go play Ultimates" does not fix the issue of

I need to get through the MSQ as a healer to get to said ultimates which as a healer is boring due to 2 dps options in solo duty content. You can tell me to not play healer and be a dps instead and fine I'll bite but...

I still need to level my healers to get to the "engaging content" by doing unegaging content for the vast majority of the game if I do not want to pay real money for a class skip. Most other classes in other roles do not suffer this problem. Why does it need to be healers?

You can have fun engaging healing classes in all forms of content, I don't see why you won't make them so.

[Deceptus]

What I find ironic about the DPS argument is were they to actually add back some DPS abilities it largely wouldn't impact casual players. The only time it'd be relevant is in Savage and Ultimate; perhaps the odd EX. Yes, you'd be expected to manage more but the majority of players who dislike that or simply can't handle it (or don't want to) aren't touching Savage or Ultimate. Therefore, this is only a benefit to Healer mains who want more to engage with. .

Higher level content requires a higher level of play. News at 11 (heavy /s)

[Atelier-Bagur]

It feels very odd hearing Yoshi-P brush off the issue in the live letter, since Ive been brought up with the idea that he values player feedback for its how this game became so loved and popular. Could it just be that the issue this is just THAT much of a minority thing in the overall community feed or wherever they go about collecting feedback data? Can anyone figure out if perhaps Japanese or European players also feel the same way with healing and giving the same complaints?

[EnigmaticDodo]

Job design across everything has been gutted.

I hope to god we get a QoL and Refinement type Expansion, honestly!

Every class needs to get some form of complexity and identity back. I understand that it's got to this point in the name of 'accessibility', but perhaps people just need to get good in order to progress. I find it interesting that other games typically progress in difficulty as the player/story progresses, yet 14 remains simple all throughout.

[Deceptus]

It feels very odd hearing Yoshi-P brush off the issue in the live letter, since Ive been brought up with the idea that he values player feedback for its how this game became so loved and popular. Could it just be that the issue this is just THAT much of a minority thing in the overall community feed or wherever they go about collecting feedback data? Can anyone figure out if perhaps Japanese or European players also feel the same way with healing and giving the same complaints?

Japanese culture is very averse to displaying criticism on a public forum so you're not going to see it as much.

Neither their Healer Forum nor their General Discussion Forum doesn't have a whole lot of activity.


Healer recent posts:

白魔導士修正案、要望 (White Mage Amendment Proposal Request)

HEALER総合スレッド (Healer General Thread)

ヒーラーは、コンテンツそのものよりも、PTメンバーの練度によって難易度が大きく変わるロールだと感じています。

被弾や戦闘不能者が続出した時に、どれだけ的確に立て直すかが醍醐味の、
アドリブ性の高さが個人的にはとても魅力的で、ヒーラーをメインに使っているのですが、
言い換えれば、メンバーが被弾せず、戦闘不能にもならなければ、特にする事もなく、ただ単調な攻撃魔法を唱えるしかない。

そういう意味では攻撃に考えが傾きがちなのもある程度は理解できます。
しかし、それならDPSで参加すれば良いのであって、やはりヒーラーである以上、
ヒールの楽しさというものを運営さんには追求して欲しいです

でなければ、将来的にヒーラーロールは不要という極端な話にもなりかねません。

DPSなどは、時間をかけて練習するほど手ごたえを感じ、安定した楽しさが保証されていますが、
時間経過によってプレイヤーがコンテンツに慣れていくに従い、やる事が逆に減っていくのがヒーラーが抱えている問題だと思っています。

先日のPLLで吉田プロデューサーは、ガッツリとヒールワークをしたいのであれば絶コンテンツを。
と仰っていましたが、絶や零式よりも、個人的にはほどよくカジュアルに楽しめる
極難易度相当のコンテンツをもっともっと増やして飽きが来ない仕組みにして欲しいなと思います。

Rough Translation:

I feel that healers are a role where the level of difficulty varies greatly depending on the skill level of the PT members rather than the content itself.

The real thrill of the game is how well you can recover when you're hit by a bullet or lose a battle.
In other words, if a member gets hit by a bullet or loses a battle, it's a good thing to be able to improvise, and that's why I mainly use healers.
In other words, if a member doesn't get hit or lose a battle, there's nothing much to do but cast monotonous attack magic.

In that sense, I can understand to some extent why people tend to think in terms of attacks.
However, if that's the case, why don't you participate as a DPS, and since you are a healer
I would like the management to pursue the fun of heal.

If you don't, it could be an extreme case that the healer role is unnecessary in the future.

With DPS, the more time you spend practicing, the more you will feel it and the more stable and fun it will be.
However, I think the problem that healers are facing is that as players become more familiar with the content over time, they will have less and less to do.

At the PLL the other day, Producer Yoshida said that if you want to do a lot of heal work, you should try Zetsu Content (Personal Edit: <-- This is Ultimate).
However, I personally would like to see more content that can be enjoyed in a moderate and casual way, rather than Zetsu or Zero.
I'd like to see more and more content that is equivalent to extreme difficulty so that people don't get bored.

Some emphasis mine.

So there is some chatter over there about wanting more support and understanding where other come from wanting more attacks.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Japanese culture is very averse to displaying criticism on a public forum so you're not going to see it as much.

Neither their Healer Forum nor their General Discussion Forum doesn't have a whole lot of activity.


Healer recent posts:

白魔導士修正案、要望 (White Mage Amendment Proposal Request)

HEALER総合スレッド (Healer General Thread)

Thats hard to believe because I could've sworn Japanese players were and can be VERY critical on the game, or at least from the little bit I heard being shared in media outlets. Still I think we just need to continually get more people to agree and bark louder that this game's healer and job designs are a major problem for the fun of the game. Maybe once they see a major drop in player subs from people getting sick of FFXIV's boring combat will they finally listen again. Oh and almost forgot to say thank you for sharing that!

[Deceptus]

翻訳が少し悪かったです、すみません。　英語は(Cries in Casuals)で、Nanamiさんのその認識で正しいです。
ID、レイド、討滅等のコンテンツがこのゲームの全てではないのですし、他の要素もヒーラーロールで楽しみたい、というコメントもありますね。　ヒーラーはソロコンテンツでは本当に芸がなくなりますし（白ララパンチは面白かったですけど）。

勿論、あっちでも全員がそう思ってるわけではなく、「ヒーラーは回復役でしょ？ヒール以外の要素いる？」「結構面白いと思いますけど」「今が丁度いい」と返す方もいますが、少なくともこのフォーラム上では少数派ですね。そういうのに対しても
「現在のようなヒーラーもあるべきだと思いますよ、皆が楽しむ事はとても大事なので！　問題は、実際は皆が楽しめてないことで、昔のようなヒーラーを好んでいたユーザーが見捨てられた事なんです。」と説明してる人もいました。
元の質問でも、「漆黒以降、沢山のベテランヒーラー達が辞めていくきっかけとなった、ほぼワンボタンに絞られた攻撃面での仕様をどうにかする予定はありますか？」と二行目に書かれています。　自分も漆黒では赤、現在は召を使っている、1.0からずっと遊んできた友人が一昨年「これまでは白で遊んでたけど、今はもうヒーラーすらやる気起きない」と言っていたのを記憶してます。　賢者も試したところ「辞めた理由がそのままだったから、やっぱり無理」と語っていました。

Rough Translation:

The translation was a little bad, sorry.　The English is (Cries in Casuals), and Nanami's understanding is correct.
The game is not all about IDs, raids, and destruction, and some people have commented that they want to enjoy other elements of the game with the healer role.　Healers really lose their art in solo content (though the white lara punch was fun).

Of course, not everyone thinks that way over there, too, with some saying, "Healers are supposed to heal, right? "Healers are supposed to heal, right? There are also those who say, "I think it's pretty fun," or "It's just right now," but at least on this forum, they are in the minority. And for those that do. I think there should be healers as they are now, because it's very important for everyone to have fun!"　The problem is that people aren't actually enjoying it, and the users who preferred the old style healers have been abandoned." Some people explained.

In the original question, "Are there any plans to fix the almost one-button offensive specs that caused so many veteran healers to quit after Jet Black? (Personal Edit: This is SHADOWBRINGERS)" It says in the second line.　I remember a friend of mine who has been playing since 1.0, who also used red in jet black and now uses summoner, said the year before last, "I used to play with white, but now I don't even want to be a healer anymore.　I tried the wise man and he said, "I can't do it anymore because the reason I quit was the same.

[dustdjinn]

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant on what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I see so it seems like our Eastern players also have similar feelings with current healing. Thats good to know at least. Wish Yoshi-P himself would sometimes drop into the forums and listen to what people have been saying all this time.

[ASkellington]

Please forgive me because I am genuinely confused on why everyone is being purposely ignorant on what Yoshi said here. The raids are currently easy because they ramp in difficulty as the expansion goes on and they are trying to help first time raiders dip their toes into the scene. That is a good thing, he is trying to train a new group to the way raiding works in this game and it will get harder. Why is everyone acting like this isn't how its been working for STB and SHB? If you have destroyed all of the end game you should be trying ultimate, it sounds like its what most of you want.

Because it isn't just the lackluster raid design we dislike (which is a whole other rant with a lot of personal bias so I won't go there).

Reread my post:

"Go play Ultimates" does not fix the issue of

I still need to level my healers to get to the "engaging content" by doing unegaging content for the vast majority of the game if I do not want to pay real money for a class skip. Most other classes in other roles do not suffer this problem. Why does it need to be healers?

Healer. Is. Boring. To anyone who is decent or better at the role or who has really good party mates. Our "primary" job (because there is debate there) is to heal. We do not have enough to heal with the over abundance of healing tools we have. Great.

Tanks also have this issue: they do not have enough tankbusters frequently enough to use all of their mitigation tools.

What tanks have that healers do not is something to do when those tankbusters aren't there: dps. I am not saying that they should give healers dps (some can certainly use it and others not so much) but what I am saying is that for healer enjoyability there should be something for us to do when we aren't healing. Only AST currently has that (cards) and even they have issues (Lady of Crowns being worthless too often, all 6 cards being the same).

Tl;dr - We want something to do when we do not have anything to heal to break up the monotony of (mostly) 1 dps button spam if you are not going to push us to heal more often whether that be more dps buttons or worthwhile buffing/debuffing abilities because we are bored.

Edit: "Go play another job/role" does not, has not, and will never fix the issue, just sweeps it under the rug. As a new player I found healing to be unengaging. As I got better, that got worse.