Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[tokinokanatae]

Okay, sure. There must be a different explanation as to why Venat purposely did her absolute best to allow the person that would cause the Calamities escape as opposed to oh, say, Azem?

Like, she was deliberately aiming for Emet-Selch to live. Knowing he’d attempt to rejoin the Shards. Guess the other option is that she was really excited about him being mentally tortured for thousands of years?

[EaraGrace]

Okay, sure. There must be a different explanation as to why Venat purposely did her absolute best to allow the person that would cause the Calamities escape as opposed to oh, say, Azem?

Like, she was deliberately aiming for Emet-Selch to live. Knowing he’d attempt to rejoin the Shards. Guess the other option is that she was really excited about him being mentally tortured for thousands of years?

That is the question we have to answer and why I’m curious about it. It’s possible she wanted him to remain Unsundered so as to retain some ability to remember Elpis, perhaps with the goal of having him remember, explaining her plan, and then having his aid.

Just theories though at the moment.

[Lurina]

That is the question we have to answer and why I’m curious about it. It’s possible she wanted him to remain Unsundered so as to retain some ability to remember Elpis, perhaps with the goal of having him remember, explaining her plan, and then having his aid.

Just theories though at the moment.

The quote from the Q&A begins by referencing the scene in Ultima Thule where Emet discusses the idea that his role in what has happened has all been a part of Venat's plan, and then expands from a place of confirming the accuracy of his supposition. "As you think back to the text towards the end Emet-Selch did imply that Venat let him live unsundered. In fact Venat did intentionally leave a tiny floor in her Sundering attack... (etc)"

As a reminder, this is the quote from Emet which is being referred to here.

So here I am, Venat. I suppose you needed me to tie it all together, these frayed threads of history.

In my opinion, in context, this represents a implicit confirmation of what Emet is saying in this scene - that she spared him to "tie these frayed threads of history", which is to say, to resolve the time loop.

[SpectrePhantasia]

Yeah, I think it is pretty clear that her letting Emet (and friends) live was so that she could at least loosely maintain the events that were relayed to her. It's just the only explanation that makes sense, otherwise there is absolutely no reason to leave Emet be, knowing what he would do. This in mind, her previous 'failures' as she put it, are either lore bits that did not age well, or straight up lies—the more sensible explanation, as she has done that before. Not a good look to be like ' I let all those happen so we can get to the point in the world I have knowledge about,' even if it is for a good cause.

But that's the problem with Venat isn't it? She held on so tightly to that vision of a hopeful future, that she dared not make palpable change in any noticeable regard to her own time. To the point where becoming aware of the WoL's world made her all but completely give up on her own people. She let millions upon millions die all for this purpose, and now the Rejoinings add to her body count. These were the losses that Venat was willing to incur to win her future, and as the devs have put it, she can absolutely be criticized for cowardly following the path of least resistance.

I'm glad to see the acknowledged comparison between her and Emet-selch, as she also stubbornly refused to look at things in any other way, and really is a mirror of his beliefs.

[EaraGrace]

Yeah, I think it is pretty clear that her letting Emet (and friends) live was so that she could at least loosely maintain the events that were relayed to her. It's just the only explanation that makes sense, otherwise there is absolutely no reason to leave Emet be, knowing what he would do.

I could see a lot of reasons to leave one of three people who would know of Meteion, who also happens to be a powerful sorcerer and a pragmatist, alive. Ultimately the question hinges on whether the other two were as intended as he was, which requires information we don’t have. We know they were together for some reason, and that the crack was only capable of being utilized by Emet. Venat somehow got the three of them together at the perfect moment, and hinged everything in a gamble that they’d make through, a fact that Yoshi P notes was far from certain. It’s a lot more of a gamble than simply hoping he makes it but not necessarily needing him as the alternative would have.

This in mind, her previous 'failures' as she put it, are either lore bits that did not age well, or straight up lies—the more sensible explanation, as she has done that before. Not a good look to be like ' I let all those happen so we can get to the point in the world I have knowledge about,' even if it is for a good cause.

I can think of only one major lie, which is regarding Zodiark and Hydaelyns origins, a lie that was explicitly addressed in the narrative. I understand that some believe her to be an outrageous lying manipulator, but that’s not how I see her and I am not swayed by that argument, especially when other explanations exist and remain logical.

But that's the problem with Venat isn't it? She held on so tightly to that vision of a hopeful future, that she dared not make palpable change in any noticeable regard to her own time. To the point where becoming aware of the WoL's world made her all but completely give up on her own people. She let millions upon millions die all for this purpose, and now the Rejoinings add to her body count. These were the losses that Venat was willing to incur to win her future, and as the devs have put it, she can absolutely be criticized for cowardly following the path of least resistance.

Once again I heavily disagree. If she were so set on the timeline we presented, there would be no need to approach or try to convince the Ancients and thr Convocation. There would be no need to resist the calamities that she knows about, nor any reason to expend needed strength to go against them. Her efforts to stop Fandaniel and Zenos from killing Zodiark would not make sense if this were true. Her actions don’t speak to this motivation, nor do her words. Thus, I don’t believe it’s true.

[SpectrePhantasia]

.

Hmm yes, today I will:
-Shatter a man's home's destroying it utterly and completely
-Erase the history of his people from the world, there being no recording or recollection of it anywhere but in his memory
-Obliterate each and every person that he knows, splitting them across 14 different worlds
-And subject him to viewing the short, short lives, of people who require more sustenance to survive, and kill each other for reasons I know he will find inane.

Are you honestly going to cling to the idea that Emet doing what he did in retaliation wasn't EXACTLY what she had intended? Look, you can believe whatever you want, I'm not going to go on pages with you like you do others, but while I admit there is guesswork in my conclusions, this is an Occam's razor situation. If they really wanted to sell Venat wanting diplomacy above all else, they would have shown her doing such with Elidibus, the heart of Zodiark who SPECIFICALLY withdrew himself from the primal for diplomacy, instead they had her plead with a bunch of nameless strawmen. It's too tough a sell to try to convince me of anything else here, sorry.

[EaraGrace]

Hmm yes, today I will:
-Shatter a man's home's destroying it utterly and completely
-Erase the history of his people from the world, there being no recording or recollection of it anywhere but in his memory
-Obliterate each and every person that he knows, splitting them across 14 different worlds
-And subject him to viewing the short, short lives, of people who require more sustenance to survive, and kill each other for reasons I know he will find inane.

Are you honestly going to cling to the idea that Emet doing what he did in retaliation wasn't EXACTLY what she had intended? Look, you can believe whatever you want, I'm not going to go on pages with you like you do others, but while I admit there is guesswork in my conclusions, this is an Occam's razor situation. If they really wanted to sell Venat wanting diplomacy above all else, they would have shown her doing such with Elidibus, the heart of Zodiark who SPECIFICALLY withdrew himself from the primal for diplomacy, instead they had her plead with a bunch of nameless strawmen. It's too tough a sell to try to convince me of anything else here, sorry.

Jesus why do we have to get so heated so quickly. I’m having a discussion and giving my viewpoint. Don’t like it, say I disagree. There’s no need to raise the temp.

And on that you saw that he was not so unwilling to accept that necessity once he understood the full picture. We see in Elpis that he was willing to join us, we see in Ultima Thule that he at least understood Venats position. While he was still snotty about it, both Hythlo and Emet affirm their desire to see us onward, despite everything that occurred. He didn’t like it, he wasn’t happy about it, but he understood and even empathized with us, the people who killed him, in Venats name no less! Before that he even commends her! The woman who did all those things to him!

Yes, I do believe if he remembered Elpis he would see Venats plan as the right one and while he may not like it he would work to see the star delivered from Meteions destruction. In an odd way, I left Endwalker with way more respect for Emet than I did going in.