Give us all job abilities by lvl 50

[Juun]

Im not really opposed to this the skills they added in EW I rarely or ever see or use because once I hit 90 I move on to a different class and just stick with my my main dps class for expert roulette and raids.

Its kind of a waste because some skills seem very much used in a full rotation and it just goes to waste until I play it in the next expac.

[Izar_Chillen]

Im not really opposed to this the skills they added in EW I rarely or ever see or use because once I hit 90 I move on to a different class and just stick with my my main dps class for expert roulette and raids.

Its kind of a waste because some skills seem very much used in a full rotation and it just goes to waste until I play it in the next expac.

Its the same design flaw with gear as your get stat synced everywhere bar a small few high end duties.

Any of your 580 crafted/marketboard gear is wasted on non current tier extreme/sav

[CaptainLagbeard]

If you get all your skills at 50, why have levels after 50? Getting all your skills by 50 won't solve the issue of losing skills prior to that due to level sync. We're literally 1 expansion away - assuming they maintain the +10 level addition per expansion - from 50 being the midway point of a characters overall power.

Technically, Level 50 is currently below the halfway point for overall power, since the jump from ARR to Heavensword is a rather exponential growth... Which was more or less caused by them wanting to add 20 levels per expansion originally, but I do believe they felt that 4 level gaps between new skills or traits or playable content was too much for an expansion so they squished it down to 10 levels without really lowering how strong the max level ended up as and kind of built further expansions on it's basis, so using ARR as a standard, that'd put us currently at about level 130 at the end of Endwalker...


But to return to the main topic...
No.
If you're not gonna unlock anything except new dungeons as you level up, you might as well give the entire skill set at level 30 when you get your upgrade to a Job.
And if you're not gonna get new skills, you also run into the problem where by leveling up you effectively become weaker as you level since you're going to be fighting stronger enemies to get more relevant XP and the only way to keep up with the enemies is replacing your gear constantly.

There are arguments to be made for moving certain skills to earlier levels, like getting all the DPS classes AoE attacks at lower levels and Umbral Soul for BLM to keep up Umbral Ice out of combat without Transpose... But there is no need to throw the entire leveling process out the window.

[kaynide]

Wouldn't the complaint then be that it feels bad to build up your resource slowly and you should have full resource growth from the start? Same argument can be said for charges, it ruins the flow having less charges, give us them all.

Plus, getting everything at 50 and barely anything after would just feel bad. You wouldn't have a sense of character growth and progression as you level, it would just be a step towards, yay, I can finally grow my gauge quicker rather than, I need to level and look forward to being able to use Ogi Namikiri, staying on the SAM theme here.

Rather than having something to look forward to, levelling would just be a slog, a chore you had to do, but by giving mini incentives along the way, once you hit them, you now have a chance to play with a new tool before you get the next one.

My argument would be, in this kind of case: You have you entire kit available to you at 50. The only thing that changes is having more opportunities to use abilities you already have, or having the abilities be more flashy, useful or offering utility. Something like Bloodlust giving a DPS boost to the entire party at higher levels, for example. Or how monk's AoE (Elixer Field) could offer a small AOE heal like Dancer. Situational ways to use abilities outside of just optimized rotations.

The point being that hopefully by the time these new options become available, your core (which will/should always be relevant) will be muscle memory.

I've leveled everything to 80, and new abilities rarely excite me personally. More often it's "how is this going to monkey with my rotation" with the big offender being black mage.

[Mikey_R]

My argument would be, in this kind of case: You have you entire kit available to you at 50. The only thing that changes is having more opportunities to use abilities you already have, or having the abilities be more flashy, useful or offering utility. Something like Bloodlust giving a DPS boost to the entire party at higher levels, for example. Or how monk's AoE (Elixer Field) could offer a small AOE heal like Dancer. Situational ways to use abilities outside of just optimized rotations.

The point being that hopefully by the time these new options become available, your core (which will/should always be relevant) will be muscle memory.

I've leveled everything to 80, and new abilities rarely excite me personally. More often it's "how is this going to monkey with my rotation" with the big offender being black mage.

But then wouldn't people complain about having to use the less flashy looking actions rather than their new toy, which also comes with a DPS boost? Take Monk, Flint Strike, a completely non flashy action that, in my opinion, doesn't deserve to be a Masterful Blitz and it is upgraded to Rising Phoenix. Why should I be forced to sync down to a lesser version.

As for Elixir Field, bad example. If you tie any sort of utility to any action intended to be used as a DPS increase, the DPS will come first. Noone is going to use up a PB window out of line just for a small heal, even then, you have to Lunar > Solar > Phantom Rush, if you have both Lunar and Solar, you cannot use Elixir Field and you do not want to delay Phantom Rush at all. So this 'extra utility' is completely ignored. Noone saves Phoenix Trance for when some healing is needed, it is just used, you might put Rekindle on the tank, not for any sort of reason, you just do it because it is there.

You want the core to be muscle memory, but then want things that could potentially disrupt that memory, like your aforementioned Elixir Field heal. The whole idea of spreading out actions is so you can get a new action and play around with it, see where it fits, see how it potentially shake up how you already play. You have previously said, well, they start Reaper at 70 and overwhelm you with actions, what is the difference? The difference is that you have already had 70 levels worth of levelling, you should have some idea how to look at actions and see where and how the work and if anything seems confusing, smack a striking dummy and see what happens.

You also come into this as a high level player thinking about trying to make your experience better as you level other things, however, how would a new person react to getting all these actions in quick succession (and I am not just talking about new to FFXIV, I am talking about new to the MMO genre in general)? You barely have any time to process what you have just learnt when you get thrown something else to mess with. It would just be too much information too quickly.

I have 4 more combat jobs to get to 90 and personally, I am excited about new actions. I would also say that BLM really is not as bad now as it used to be, nothing really shakes up the rotation much, the biggest ones being getting Blizzard 4 and Fire 4, otherwise, it is all just additions, just like every other job.

[Shougun]

One, unwieldy, idea was to allow players to optionally turn on 'legend' sync which caused monsters to hit that player harder (basically bringing the over level synced gear to a near almost min ilvl sync in terms of defense, for tank this would be /slightly/ less aggressive), but also gave them their full kit with limiters. Say level 20 dungeon has a soft potency cap of 400, your skills below 400 would be whatever they were, your skills at or above 400 would be put into a curve towards a hard cap of 500. Mechanics are more likely to target you.

An expansion of that concept would be the more legend synced players in a content the higher chance for minor mutations that will also increase rewards. Like more trash monsters, or they can call for help / run to nearby enemies, weak monsters may back up bosses in fights, extra mechanics. Nothing that should absolutely wreck a party, but things that would catch you a little bit off like "oh, I guess we're doing that?" and then at the end you'd get a small boost for your effort (like 5% more exp, or 10% more tomes or whatever). Again not so much that the content is potentially incomplete-able, just minor curve-balls.

If you die, a bit like echo mechanics work in trials, you'll lose some of the negatives to your defense stats to ensure the run is complete-able. Again though the point isn't to make them 'savage', just a little bit of a variation and a bit more engagement and if it was too much then you can recover and keep on.

To help new players when you spawn into the content you might temporarily glow, to give those players a vaguely holy like aura (temporarily, goes away after the barrier goes down) - making them set apart and make a bit more sense something is special.

Maybe consider at the same time increasing epic echo, further tamp down the peaks of power players can come into old content with (when over gearing), and also increase the rewards to content as they get older to such a concept that the rate of reward is consistent with the time 'cost'. If not much of a time cost shift then whatever. But point isn't to make 8 minute content take 15 and reward people the same- making the rate a nerf (hence on the idea if a mutation of the content appears you'd know that dungeon is already going to give you a little bit more, justifying the slightly more time involved - pleasant minor challenge surprises).

But then again making all that math work out on so many different jobs with their different kits at all levels is certainly an impressive feat lol. Ultimate content would certainly feel a massive impact if such a system was allowed into it... Though I do share some of the "oh my god, look at my kit, it's nothing- when doing some older content".


Though some of these concepts also go in line with my thought on difficulty for players who know what they're doing vs players who either don't or are just enjoying a fun casual experience. Having made comments on perhaps different gear classes and horizontal-lite type systems, encouraging players who either want to git gud or already to have the 'need' to play better. Like if casual gear gave 100 defense and 85 offense, then hardcore would be 85 defense and 90 offense (the mismatched ratio on purpose). As if you imagine going through new dungeons the first time in an expansion with okay gear and you're getting beat down (that'd be closer to the hardcore gear stats) meanwhile the "I'm way over item level cap for this" experience would be more closer to the casual armor experience (minus the huge damage coming).

I know since it's an MMO there are special dynamics going on, but if you at least viewed it from just difficulty / enjoyment and more of a single player experience then you pick hard because you want to be challenged to play good... here though those players just get gear that makes the whole game easier it's as if playing hard forces you the "Easy" option, meanwhile those who might have wanted easy are getting hard lol.

It's weird I know.. but imagine gear could help in another aspect to this desire of keeping things fresh. Also I'm aware OP wasn't asking for the game to be harder, but just a thought to my mind in vein to the above how you know a certain level of technical detail and then go to content where you can just sort of one button press watch netflix. I think it's important the game is accessible, and if things are made too hard people wont help that's for sure- I remember people abandoning the Ishgard quest when it popped because people were like "nope" so you can't just force the curve to be hard mode for all... but I still have thoughts on what might be done to allow everyone a bit of a tailored experience. "What about people who wear the wrong gear or use the wrong echo" "thank goodness echo is there, then - good worse case scenario feature" .

I've leveled everything to 80, and new abilities rarely excite me personally. More often it's "how is this going to monkey with my rotation" with the big offender being black mage.

I do not like Black Mage roulette , I do not like black mage roulette at all... no green eggs and ham for me... lol. It's interesting it morphs so much and I don't mind if others like it, but the big changes at certain points in the level just messes with my groove too much.

[kaynide]

But then wouldn't people complain about having to use the less flashy looking actions rather than their new toy, which also comes with a DPS boost? Take Monk, Flint Strike, a completely non flashy action that, in my opinion, doesn't deserve to be a Masterful Blitz and it is upgraded to Rising Phoenix. Why should I be forced to sync down to a lesser version.

As for Elixir Field, bad example. If you tie any sort of utility to any action intended to be used as a DPS increase, the DPS will come first. Noone is going to use up a PB window out of line just for a small heal, even then, you have to Lunar > Solar > Phantom Rush, if you have both Lunar and Solar, you cannot use Elixir Field and you do not want to delay Phantom Rush at all. So this 'extra utility' is completely ignored. Noone saves Phoenix Trance for when some healing is needed, it is just used, you might put Rekindle on the tank, not for any sort of reason, you just do it because it is there.

You want the core to be muscle memory, but then want things that could potentially disrupt that memory, like your aforementioned Elixir Field heal. The whole idea of spreading out actions is so you can get a new action and play around with it, see where it fits, see how it potentially shake up how you already play. You have previously said, well, they start Reaper at 70 and overwhelm you with actions, what is the difference? The difference is that you have already had 70 levels worth of levelling, you should have some idea how to look at actions and see where and how the work and if anything seems confusing, smack a striking dummy and see what happens.

You also come into this as a high level player thinking about trying to make your experience better as you level other things, however, how would a new person react to getting all these actions in quick succession (and I am not just talking about new to FFXIV, I am talking about new to the MMO genre in general)? You barely have any time to process what you have just learnt when you get thrown something else to mess with. It would just be too much information too quickly.

I have 4 more combat jobs to get to 90 and personally, I am excited about new actions. I would also say that BLM really is not as bad now as it used to be, nothing really shakes up the rotation much, the biggest ones being getting Blizzard 4 and Fire 4, otherwise, it is all just additions, just like every other job.

I think you over estimate how in tune the player base is with being optimal. Like, the majority of dancers I meet don’t even realize their dances do AoE damage on activation. It also think having abilities that push away from set rotations and work in favor of fluidity is not a bad thing. (Eg an option to shield or heal mid rotation)

I get it though, fundamentally we disagree- you prefer new shiny abilities and that is exciting for you, I prefer consistency. Fair enough.

[Gemina]

I guess instead of just saying a hard pass on this [again], I will instead ask how to go about tuning the potencies on not only skills, but also traits such as melee/magic mastery that are entirely meant to be acquired at later levels so how impactful your APM feels @90 is retained in synced content. Can anyone answer that? Because to make this work now, potencies on those skills you want to bring into this content will feel like you're swinging a wet noodle at the mobs. Something like a < 200 pot Xenoglossy is entirely possible with such [i]under[i] tuning. I emphasize that because that is exactly what's happening.

[SeiyaSoiya]

Role abilities already are, but doing this would be a mistake and give players syncing down a massive advantage. Players synced down would be at max item level with level 90 spells and abilities, what would stop them from just kicking sprouts or people levelling alternate jobs to get someone filling in who could completely trivialize the content and clear in half the time?

the same reason you wait for sprouts to finish watching cutscenes

[DPZ2]

Problems with this approach:

1) You are going to have to erase job quest storylines from 50 to 70, since there is absolutely no 'reward' for doing them now

2) Having all of your tool bar at level 50 means reinforcing bad habits for new sprouts. Or the development of new bad habits.

3) Every single instance would need to be retuned somehow, not just the new expansion instances.

4) If you have all of your tool bar at level 50, there will never be another new thing for your avatar to learn throughout the rest of the game. And every expansion will have to reset the full tool bar, yet again. And again. And ...