What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[EaraGrace]

But more importantly, these "possible solutions" I mentioned are just examples of "they could have tried stuff". I don't mean them to be perfect, I don't mean the ancients would have succeeded with a 100% chance, but that they could have at least TRIED something different. But no, instead Venat just sat on her high horse, let them fail the way she already knew they would fail and then pulled her act. That's the point you're missing.

Its not a point that I'm "missing" its a point the game directly addresses and gives no reason to argue with. If you don't like the reasons the game gives then fine, sure, but they exist and if we are going to discuss what the text is saying then we have to grapple with it. Either you have a good reason to believe that Venat was wrong and that she was so unwilling to abide by other solutions so as to commit to the sundering (an act we know she didn't want to do follow through on) or you don't. I've tried my best to show that the text gives reasons why these options wouldn't work and why the characters in the story don't act on them. But to me, the text is clear.

You're just not getting that a refrigerator doesn't need an AI to consume electricity.

I'm pretty sure my fridge doesn't run on me yelling obscenities at it.

...But the Final Days happened first on the regions where the celestial currents were stagnating, without their protection. And she still couldn't transform an ancient. "B-but she didn't have access to enough dynamis yet to unmake them!" So she was still weak enough then? So send a space mission to beat her.

With what ship and what aether. You think Hydaelyn sat in the aetherial sea gathering aether for shits and giggles?

If they had started on it right after leaving Ktisis she wouldn't have that much of a lead. Hell, why not make a Zodiark who would have traveled like Zenos did, beaten the hell outta her, come back and then restore the ancients from him? Zodiark's mission would be complete, he wouldn't be needed to remain like our shielding Zodiark did so they wouldn't need new life to take their place.

How would they get there. If there's a single piece of dialogue suggesting how they should do so, knowing the limitations of their control of dynamis and the fact that by this point she already has innumerable sisters on innumerable worlds, how would you even get to Ultima.

See, the more you think about it the more possibilites arise other than "let's flex tape the celestial currents".

"You don't need Frodo to carry the ring, just get the eagles to carry him! Easy solution you dumb old wizard!"

Oh right, my bad. I try to not think too much about that fight so I completely forgot that part. But like you said, that's besides the point. Don't forget Hydaelyn was highly taxed with "containing" Zodiark, so that limited how much aether she could divert to the mothercrystal. So don't take how long it took her as a measure of anything. Besides, even accounting for her primal form, she's just 1 ancient. Put all ancients together to speed up the process.

That wasn't Her power though. That was the aether that gathered in the aetherial sea, which She refused to partake of so we would have enough.

Yeah, from what I recall Mitron and Loghrif turning into Eden (and causing the flood of light) was an accident and not part of their original plan. Still, Elidibus was trying to fix it by bringing Ardbert and company and cause another calamity before it was too late. It was us who prevented that calamity from happening before Minfilia traveled to stop the flood.

So in summary, the Ascians manipulated a world too well, failed to cause a rejoining and led to a flood of darkness that consumed the 13th and an imbalance of light on the 1st.

I'm not sure why people liked venat, after she said she wanted to kill us to our face lmao.

I… I genuinely can’t tell if people think she actually intended to kill us there or not, you’re joking about it right?

Right?

[Xavier_Firbold]

She literally says she had aimed to sunder us. But failed. What from this single sentence do you not understand?

[AnaviAnael]

We were looking for Hermes in this quest . Literally what else could she mean by saying she meant to finish it ?This was right after we told emet what he did in the future. I believer she didn’t trust us. If she had succeeded in killing us when we were in the past, we wouldn’t have been alive to go back to the future and time loop would’ve been meaningless . This is quite plainly how I took the sentence . If they meant something else, they should’ve worded it better.

I'm pretty sure she meant finish the fight.

[IttyBitty]

We were looking for Hermes in this quest . Literally what else could she mean by saying she meant to finish it ?This was right after we told emet what he did in the future. I believer she didn’t trust us. If she had succeeded in killing us when we were in the past, we wouldn’t have been alive to go back to the future and time loop would’ve been meaningless . This is quite plainly how I took the sentence . If they meant something else, they should’ve worded it better.

Do you guys...not know what sparring is? Like...at all? Do you think Venat tries to kill everybody she spars with, including Azem? My lord.

"finish it" = I aimed to knock you down/out or otherwise make you concede.

And no, she didn't try to sunder us during that fight. What incredulous nonsense.

[Rokke]

The thing is "finish the fight" can have multiple meanings. Imagine some of the players whose native language is spanish or portugese. I'm not sure if the blame is on the translation team or the writers, but that sentence does not paint venat in a good lighting either way.

Can't speak for all of us, but I understood that line perfectly clear. I'm not on board with Venat's plan 100% but this is silly levels of pedantry.

[Sicno]

Its not a point that I'm "missing" its a point the game directly addresses and gives no reason to argue with. If you don't like the reasons the game gives then fine, sure, but they exist and if we are going to discuss what the text is saying then we have to grapple with it. Either you have a good reason to believe that Venat was wrong and that she was so unwilling to abide by other solutions so as to commit to the sundering (an act we know she didn't want to do follow through on) or you don't. I've tried my best to show that the text gives reasons why these options wouldn't work and why the characters in the story don't act on them. But to me, the text is clear.

You've already tried to "prove" things from literal interpretations from text that missed the mark in some way or another. You've taken casual conversation like IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT THIS IS HOW IT 1000000% OF THE TIMES THINGS HAPPENED, converting them into absolute truths. Remember Y'shtola's speech to the Ea in Ultima Thule? Open your mind, think of possibilities and reach your own conclussions rather than fixate on the precise wording they used or letting the writer convince you of every literal thing they write.

I'm pretty sure my fridge doesn't run on me yelling obscenities at it.

I'll try one last time: Dynamis is energy... the flower has a reaction to it... the reaction consumes energy... that's why it changes color... it doesn't say "oh hey dynamis, nice day we're having, please continue your course" without consuming it because that's what REACTIONS with ENERGY do.

If you still don't get it I give up. This is like the Patrick meme.

With what ship and what aether. You think Hydaelyn sat in the aetherial sea gathering aether for shits and giggles?

Hello, creation magics? They didn't have to invent rocket engines when they can create a familiar to fly... like Meteion... or a primal like Zodiark... And I know you want to yell about Hermes-senpai being instrumental in his creation but that was just because the job of our Zodiark was to refill those celestial currents he knew about, which aren't needed to just go and blast her with aether.

Also, put a few millions of ancients collecting aether together and you may have in mere days what it took her a million years to collect. And you said she wouldn't have collected that much dynamis by that point so she was weaker, so not that much aether would be necessary to defeat her.

That wasn't Her power though. That was the aether that gathered in the aetherial sea, which She refused to partake of so we would have enough.

So even less reason to take "how many years it took her" as a measure of anything.

How would they get there. If there's a single piece of dialogue suggesting how they should do so, knowing the limitations of their control of dynamis and the fact that by this point she already has innumerable sisters on innumerable worlds, how would you even get to Ultima.

But I thought you said she wasn't strong enough in dynamis and that's why she couldn't pierce Zodiark's barrier nor transform a single ancient? And I don't know what you're getting at with the "innumerable sisters on innumerable world". Did anyone attack us before reaching Ultima Thule? And this "limitations of their control of dynamis" talk got very tiresome long ago because we've said how they didn't need to do it themselves, they could have made familiars.

"You don't need Frodo to carry the ring, just get the eagles to carry him! Easy solution you dumb old wizard!"

Exactly! Create eagle entelechies to carry some aether bombs and drop them on her face. See, I knew you could think of other solutions by yourself!

So in summary, the Ascians manipulated a world too well, failed to cause a rejoining and led to a flood of darkness that consumed the 13th and an imbalance of light on the 1st.

I don't even know where you're going. Ascian machinations backfiring are one thing, that doesn't take away the fact that humanity wasn't meant to be wiped away in their calamities so the merit in surviving them is... not that impressive?

I… I genuinely can’t tell if people think she actually intended to kill us there or not, you’re joking about it right?

Right?

On this I'll actually agree, that's taking it a bit too far. I think she just intended to KO us.

[BaconBits]

9/14 sundered, perilously thin on aether in comparison to an Ancient even after Hades charged us up, and still capable of guarding against Venat's strongest attack and running her ragged.

The unsundered Azem must of been an absolute monster in combat.

[hydralus]

9/14 sundered, perilously thin on aether in comparison to an Ancient even after Hades charged us up, and still capable of guarding against Venat's strongest attack and running her ragged.

The unsundered Azem must of been an absolute monster in combat.

Not necessarily. Thanks to dynamis, you can say the MC can do pretty much anything as long as their feelings are strong enough. It explains impossible feats of strength. Kinda lame if you ask me, but it's there now.