Dark Knight Megathread

[The_User]

Can relate. Especially when it was made from the original Blood Weapon which never made it to it's original owner

[TouchandFeel]

snip

What you are quoting is from a post from last year, was already admitted to be incorrect due to mixing up some different abilities and you even responded to it back then saying basically the same thing that you just said now back at that time on this page.

Are you refer to these?

As was stated above, that is a months old post from last year being dredged up and was already addressed in subsequent posts at the time. I have no idea why you decided to respond to and quote it now while also not taking into account any following discussion from the time, but it kind of comes across like trying to stir up some sh*t. If this wasn't your intent, please just be careful to check when a post was made before responding directly to it and check any discussion or other posts around that post so you have a better understanding of the context of the post.

[Shurrikhan]

What you are quoting is from a post from last year, was already admitted to be incorrect due to mixing up some different abilities and you even responded to it back then saying basically the same thing that you just said now back at that time on this page.

My apologies. I ended up following The_User's recent post back further than I thought I had and assumed I had made that correction on another thread instead.

[Archwizard]

Thinking about it now, I can't help but wonder how much of DRK's problem would be solved instantly if they just swapped Quietus and Abyssal Drain...

Abyssal Drain: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 200 to target and all enemies nearby it.

Additional Effect: Restores own HP
Cure Potency: 200
Blood Gauge Cost: 50

Bloodspiller: Delivers an attack with a potency of 500.

Additional Effect: Restores own HP
Cure Potency: 500
Blood Gauge Cost: 50

Quietus (60 sec CD): Delivers an attack with a potency of 170 to all nearby enemies.

Additional Effect: Restores MP
Shares a recast timer with Carve and Spit.

No more complaints about how AD shouldn't share a CD, Blood Gauge contributes to survival which also separates us from WAR, Delirium becomes a survival CD by extension...
All with just a couple changes they could feasibly implement within one patch cycle...

[The_User]

There're more to it than that. Like how Every other tank short mitigation is like 2-3 times stronger than TBN. I'm beginning to suspect that Dark Knight might get carry in savage by the stronger mitigation and healer. I wish there are a data of Double Dark Knight performance compared with Double GNB or Double WAR.

[The_User]

What you are quoting is from a post from last year, was already admitted to be incorrect due to mixing up some different abilities and you even responded to it back then saying basically the same thing that you just said now back at that time on this page.



As was stated above, that is a months old post from last year being dredged up and was already addressed in subsequent posts at the time. I have no idea why you decided to respond to and quote it now while also not taking into account any following discussion from the time, but it kind of comes across like trying to stir up some sh*t. If this wasn't your intent, please just be careful to check when a post was made before responding directly to it and check any discussion or other posts around that post so you have a better understanding of the context of the post.

I just asking nicely you know. I just have a doubt and feel that maybe you're not wrong despite the other 2 people said otherwise last year. There are other thing I would like to talk about as well, like what you believed JP community forum was like.


Regard your blood weapon suggestion and what followed. I feel that there are 2 parts and it should be treated differently.
first is the argument that since life drain isn't exclusive to WAR there is no reason to forbid Dark Knight from having Blood Weapon turned to a life drain ability.
second part is where you've mistaken which may have been corrected but the first part still stand because many job including Dark Knight can have access to blood bath so life drain isn't exclusive to War then like how damage debuff isn't exclusive to Dark Knight now.

What was exclusive to WAR is Blood Shower which only make Blood Bath duration longer. I know WAR have steel cyclone and Inner Beast that have life drain effect but Dark Knight also have DA+Soul Eater,DA+Abyssal Drain. It seem that Dark Knight is closely behind WAR in term of life drain. Beside if I'm not mistakening there is no barrier in Dark Knight arsenal in heavensward, the theme of Dark Knight then is debuffs/hex/enfeeble what you want to call it and life drain.


The TLDR is that the first half of your point still stand and it shouldn't be overlooked by the mistake in the later half.

[Shurrikhan]

Thinking about it now, I can't help but wonder how much of DRK's problem would be solved instantly if they just swapped Quietus and Abyssal Drain...

Abyssal Drain: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 200 to target and all enemies nearby it.

Additional Effect: Restores own HP
Cure Potency: 200
Blood Gauge Cost: 50

Bloodspiller: Delivers an attack with a potency of 500.

Additional Effect: Restores own HP
Cure Potency: 500
Blood Gauge Cost: 50

Quietus (60 sec CD): Delivers an attack with a potency of 170 to all nearby enemies.

Additional Effect: Restores MP
Shares a recast timer with Carve and Spit.

No more complaints about how AD shouldn't share a CD, Blood Gauge contributes to survival which also separates us from WAR, Delirium becomes a survival CD by extension...
All with just a couple changes they could feasibly implement within one patch cycle...

I don't really see the need to swap AD and Quietus as compared to just having Blood skills heal.
AD then can then just lose its heal--as it has "MP-drain" anyways, which we could easily have scale with target count for big MP restores-- or C&S can gain it for parity.

Either way, yeah, that functionality would help quite a bit.

[Archwizard]

I don't really see the need to swap AD and Quietus as compared to just having Blood skills heal.
AD then can then just lose its heal--as it has "MP-drain" anyways, which we could easily have scale with target count for big MP restores-- or C&S can gain it for parity.

~Flavor~
I mean, "Quietus" is just a word meaning "death". Bloodspiller and Drain at least fall along the same line as far as "bleeding" effects. Quietus as a reflection of C&S works.

Plus, y'know, FF history. With the actual "Drain" spell removed, Abyssal Drain is the last vestige of a "Drain" effect in the game (as opposed to Syphon/Osmose, its MP equivalent).
I'd rather see Abyssal Drain replaced completely than have it lose its iconic HP drain.

Plus upon consideration, the oGCDs don't need to do both HP and MP, particularly if the Blackblood skills do on-demand. They just need to do the same thing as each other, so one becomes the Orogeny to C&S's Upheaval.

[Deceptus]

Thinking about it and I think I've found another basic design flaw:

Generally opportunity cost items in MMOs follow a relatively standard concept:

Resources, or cooldown. One of the other, not both.

DRK suffers because two of it's skills cost both.

TBN: Costs resources (heavy) and has a CD (low).

Living Shadow: costs resources (heavy) and has a CD (heavy).

[Shurrikhan]

Thinking about it and I think I've found another basic design flaw:

Generally opportunity cost items in MMOs follow a relatively standard concept:

Resources, or cooldown. One of the other, not both.

I'm trying to think of an MMO in which this is true...

BDO? No. B&S? No. WoW? No. GW2? No. Aion? No. In none are resource-consumption and CDs mutually exclusive.

DRK suffers because two of it's skills cost both.

TBN: Costs resources (heavy) and has a CD (low).

Living Shadow: costs resources (heavy) and has a CD (heavy).

This seems among the smallest of reasons possible for DRK's suffering.

We could certainly remove the Blood cost from Living Shadow, but then we have one more Bloodspiller per 2 minutes to tune Living Shadow or the kit (minisculely) down for. I don't see how that'd change our gameplay except to allow us to give even less of a damn about LS coming off cooldown soonish. I'm not sure what, if anything, siphoning back a Bloodspiller's bonus ppgcd away from Living Shadow, for instance, would improve.

We could remove the cooldown from TBN, but then its ability to be used against two different TBs only 10-12 seconds apart, without even needing careful pre-popping for the first, would mean both reduced skill ceiling and TBN having to be tuned more around the extremes of what it can do. I'm not sure what, if anything, that would improve, either.