Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

[Shibi]

Yes, I have little patience for people with sub-optimal performance. I don't hide that. However, I do not go out of my way to harass or grief them. I say nothing and leave the instance, or keep going with no word said in chat.

Me not wanting to hardcast raise someone, or trying to have DPS uptime, shouldn't result in account action. I am not griefing. If the ToS is going to respect a player who is contributing nothing, and pressing random keys or clicking random skills, and dying constantly, then my own playstyle should similarly be respected.

I do understand your points, and so many times I feel for you as we have all had these parties. The ones to make your head hit your keyboard repeatedly.

I just mention - and I am trying to do it with the real respect you deserve here because you have valid points - that your delivery and "shortness" might pop-out sometimes without you realising.

I'm going to wish you the absolute best in your appeal and clearing of name.

It's one you will also have to work to move past the sting, it's tough to do from my experience - a permaban in another game, and a warning here - and I hope you can do that.

[SturmChurro]

I do understand your points, and so many times I feel for you as we have all had these parties. The ones to make your head hit your keyboard repeatedly.

I just mention - and I am trying to do it with the real respect you deserve here because you have valid points - that your delivery and "shortness" might pop-out sometimes without you realising.

I'm going to wish you the absolute best in your appeal and clearing of name.

It's one you will also have to work to move past the sting, it's tough to do from my experience - a permaban in another game, and a warning here - and I hope you can do that.

I am much more mellow now then I have ever been, in fact. I might be short or blunt, but that is mostly on the forums. Much of what I have posted on here in regards to runs, is me simply venting. I do not criticize players in-game, and in fact, like I have stated previously, I don't even post my runs in the TfDF thread very often. If my opinions in other various threads about player performance is also being brought up, again, I am not just going into shout chat, or party chat and attacking players. I do not do that in-game.

This is very concerning to me, as 'warnings' are still pretty much permanent marks on your account. If I had actually participated in "grief tactics violations" I could at least understand why I received it, but I didn't. As stated, I have little patience, I wouldn't go out of my way to waste my time and the time of others to grief some random pug I will never see again. If my patience ran out I would instead simply eat the penalty and leave, as I often do nowadays. Yes, I am often blunt, and I don't explain my reasoning on why I am leaving in chat, but I don't believe I have to. I shouldn't receive a warning, just because my playstyle was interpreted by some player out for blood as "griefing". It is incredibly petty to report somebody, and whatever I supposedly did was such a non-issue a warning was the most they gave me. It's ridiculous.

This isn't something I deal with often. I have never been permabanned or suspended from any game, not even when I had more of an attitude when I was younger.

[Driavna]

...

What helped me was to consider that some player what they are doing is the best they can give you and honestly, that's enough. Ideal? No, you are right. It's worth making a fuss about it? No, not really. At least in my DC bad runs are rare.

On another note: I think that keeping people to their own standard is a good attitude, as long you don't go out your way to do it. Looking for things "to be offended" and report sounds a perfect way to be miserable.

[SturmChurro]

What helped me was to consider that some player what they are doing is the best they can give you and honestly, that's enough. Ideal? No, you are right. It's worth making a fuss about it? No, not really. At least in my DC bad runs are rare.

On another note: I think that keeping people to their own standard is a good attitude, as long you don't go out your way to do it. Looking for things "to be offended" and report sounds a perfect way to be miserable.

Yeah, and so I don't. If I have a problem, like I said, I just leave.

I do not report players, what I was saying earlier in the thread was just me venting about this "great community" reporting anybody and everybody for every minor slight, with the intent to get another player banned, no matter how petty. It's annoying. I have never played a game with a community that has such a large amount of players who take every single thing as a personal slight, and does this. All this warning is is confirmation of that. I am just very concerned, because now if my playstyle somehow offends somebody else that will be an actual strike. This warning was my buffer, something I would rather not have had my account associated with. It is disgusting, and nasty.

I wasn't aware you could be infracted for leaving a dungeon in the middle of a run. Someone could have a legitimate reason to up and drop, stuff happens IRL. I've dropped before mid run more than once for a variety of reasons, but I've never been given a warning for it.

I don't know if it was for that, it's just one of the more likely. A winter storm came through recently, and my internet was going out.

First off I think you need to calm down a bit. Coming out this angry and overly upset about the whole situation won't do you any good, no matter how justified you think you are.

Warnings will decay over time and you should be clean again in about two years. Given how "odd" and out of the spectrum this instance was according to your report, it's unlikely anything else will happen again in this period. So just try to relax and keep playing the game they way you have been up until now.

Yeah, and the mark is also on my account forever, whether it's decayed or not, my account now has a history of "grief tactics". It's disgusting; a blemish.

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I don't have anything to say to them. Simple as that.

I was actually having issues with my internet. I see no reason to ever fake a DC or whatever in the first place. If I hate my party I will literally just leave.

Yes, I think how I play healer could also be a general issue with players. They see me casting glare constantly and whine about it. They should have never died in the first place. It is not my place to sit here and babysit bad players. If they die it's their fault. If my swiftcast is up, I will raise immediately, if it is not up I will wait until it is to raise. I will not hardcast raise unless it is absolutely necessary, such as raising a tank, or the other healer, perhaps an RDM or something. Aside from that, I will instead glare.

Exactly. They should raise themselves, I see many players just wait for a raise after a boss fight, and I do not raise them. They should respawn and teleport so they don't have a debuff.

That is exactly what I think happened, somebody got mad and reported me, claiming I was griefing.

[DragonFlyy]

Yeah, and the mark is also on my account forever, whether it's decayed or not, my account now has a history of "grief tactics". It's disgusting; a blemish.

No, a decay means the record of it is gone. It will be like it never existed. That is how decayed actions work.

[kaynide]

Yes, I think how I play healer could also be a general issue with players. They see me casting glare constantly and whine about it. They should have never died in the first place. It is not my place to sit here and babysit bad players. If they die it's their fault. If my swiftcast is up, I will raise immediately, if it is not up I will wait until it is to raise. I will not hardcast raise unless it is absolutely necessary, such as raising a tank, or the other healer, perhaps an RDM or something. Aside from that, I will instead glare.

I can see how players could get upset here. As healer, your primary job should be to keep people alive, regardless of how dumb they are playing…to the best of your abilities to do so. If people are dropping and you are using glare instead of regen etc, that can be seen as willfully neglecting to do your role.

I’m not saying “keep everyone 100% full 100% of the time”, I’m saying “just keep people from dying, even if just barely”.

I’ve had my wife (who is infamously bad at the game) get upset when trying to do copies factory her first time. She died once and the healer just gave up on her. She got raised by a summoner and the healer straight up refused to heal her as she made dumb rookie mistakes the rest of the entire raid. Nothing ridiculous..but stuff like not knowing what to do the first time a mechanic is introduced. She died a lot, and most if not all of it would have been entirely preventable by tossing the occasional regen at her.

My wife is a better person than me, because I would have reported that. She just got upset and quit playing for the night.

Again, hope your appeal goes well, but at the same time if it doesn’t take time to reflect that your actions might deserve said blemish.

Again, I don’t know the details of your case specifically.

[SturmChurro]

Perhaps the constant ditching parties you deem "unfun" as well as your latest actual accidental DC shows a pattern of on purpose/sketchy leaving?

You seem to have a grasp of a lot of the things that COULD have contributed.. the question is will you continue these things knowing they might be part of the case against you?

I don't think you deserve to be banned, or that your warning is warranted since I am not the GM looking into the case nor do I know what they track to "validate" reports....

But if you can think of all these things yet insist on continuing to do them, it's food for thought on who'd be to blame if it progresses further?

Perhaps talking in game is less important or contributory than HOW you play the game?

Yes, I will. SE is in the wrong here. I received a warning for "grief tactics violations" (3.2). I am not "griefing". I play the game the way I enjoy it, and that should be respected. I should be afforded the same protections via the ToS as the players doing nothing. I may leave semi-often, but I receive a penalty most times I do (sometimes someone else leaves). The penalty is my punishment for leaving. My internet cutting out is something I do not have control over.

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community? Why is a player contributing nothing to the rest of the party afforded protections?

[Krotoan]

Yes, I will. SE is in the wrong here. I received a warning for "grief tactics violations" (3.2). I am not "griefing". I play the game the way I enjoy it, and that should be respected. I should be afforded the same protections via the ToS as the players doing nothing. I may leave semi-often, but I receive a penalty most times I do (sometimes someone else leaves). The penalty is my punishment for leaving. My internet cutting out is something I do not have control over.

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community?

Expecting SE to conform to YOUR idea of what is fair or thinking that what you believe is the "right way" and you expect them to unilaterally punish everyone who's breaking your personal rules as well as the established SE rules to be "fair" is setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment as well as eventual stronger punishments if you continue in your habits that may be incurring you reports. The idea that "I get a leaver punishment and that is enough!" isn't your call to make. Just like "I had to defend myself!" isn't an excuse the GM's accept for abusive chat.


Arguing your point here on the forum is pretty pointless, absolutely none of us have any power over their decisions and neither do the community managers.

I replied to present a possible avenue to NOT lose the resources you've invested in the game at a random point in the future. Your call on what you're going to do.

[kaynide]

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community? Why is a player contributing nothing to the rest of the party afforded protections?

I would say you can and should report players who you feel are being willfully negligent.

That said, if a character can get into some instance at the required iLvl, despite being incredibly weak, they are not “under geared” for the content. I would agree SE can and should do better on tightening gear sync and how they calculate a job… but as is, these players are doing what is allowed in the game. Even if they are naked aside from their weapon.

Regarding the other stuff, it’s really simple: as long as the DPS is DPSing, the Tank Tanking and the Healer Healing, everyone is doing their job according to SE…even if it agonizingly slow.

You are allowed to leave if their play style doesn’t match, but if you refuse to do the role you signed up for, there can be a reportable problem. I believe that your healing situation could be the problem here, not the fact that you leave parties.

[Rhysati]

If they are going to give me a warning over this, then they need to start handing out warnings to players ruining my experience, by wasting everyone's time. Not using aoes, no cds, undergeared, dying constantly.. Or is that just ignored, because FFXIV has such a large population of these sort of players in their community? Why is a player contributing nothing to the rest of the party afforded protections?

I'm 7 pages into this thread and I've seen a pretty consistent negative attitude in all of your posts. I cannot keep going through all the rest of this thread so I'm going to comment on this that you said.

If you are joining a party with random people, then you are at the mercy of what those random players do in terms of how they play. If you don't want to play your role properly and heal/rez those players as needed, you ARE griefing. The fact that you make it a habit to leave dungeons the moment you get annoyed at someone not doing optimal dps, getting killed, not having the best gear, etc sounds like a prime reason to get a ban.

You chose to enter that type of content. You know the risks going in(you clearly do as you've talked about the random players you team with a LOT in these last 7 pages). You still choose to take that risk and then punish all the other players in the party who likely had queues waiting to get into a dungeon in the first place.

If you don't want to play properly in a party of random players you need to make your own private groups where you can do anything you like. Period.