Alliance Raids and players not waiting for Cutscene Watchers

[YukikoKurosawa]

I've been noticing a trend in Alliance raids of late. If anyone is new and wants to experience the story, they're going to be in for a poor experience as everytime players will pull the final boss without waiting for them to finish cutscene. There's not even a pause to see if anyone is in cutscene, even if it's a healer, players will IMMEDIATELY pull last boss while we may have several people still in cutscene.

Curiously, in all other group content, players will always wait for the person watching a cutscene, without complaint. But alliance raids, I don't know why exactly, but the attitude is completely the opposite. The other night I was doing Puppets Bunker. At the end both healers in my party were new and watching the cutscene (which, for those of us who've done it, know it's a fairly lengthy cutscene). Nobody waited, and by the time they finally joined the fight the boss was already in second phase.

Someone got upset and said we should've waited. Another player just responded "You can press escape to skip cutscenes", as if to suggest nobody would actually want to watch the cutscenes. This led to an argument, but ultimately it was already too late. Now I would argue perhaps this only highlights a flaw of trying to mix story with online group content. I would counter that by arguing you shouldn't play a game you know is story-focused and where there will be people watching cutscenes in group content if you have a problem with it.

Not really sure what could be done about this. When you're queing using the duty finder, you should know that there are people going to be experiencing the story for the first time and be willing to respect that. Why players are able to do this in all other content but not Alliance Raids I don't really understand, but I suspect it's for the same reason people grief so often in Alliance Raids and only Alliance raids (like people who deliberately melt all the ice as a frog on the Amon fight so we wipe). I have no problem waiting for people to finish cutscenes if they're new and from my experience up and till recently has been other players generally don't either, and I was lucky to have groups that waited for me when I did Alliance stories the first time, but lately it seems the average Alliance Raid queuer has completely lost their patience for story-watchers and it's just sad for people who are new and are having to deal with these people.

[aveyond-dreams]

1 person doesn't get to hold up 23 other people in Crystal Tower, same applies for other raids that are years old. You can watch the cutscene and remain invulnerable as long as you do not exit out early, and aren't missing much in later raids because the last actual pre-final boss cutscene is an unskipable transition.

Puppet's Bunker is already a long headache of a raid so I cannot blame anyone who pulls the last boss early, seeing as by that point everyone is desperate to just get out of there.

[Illmaeran]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done short of keeping the party locked in a preparation bubble a la, the dungeon's start, until the cutscene is done. At that point I'm sure we'd see a rash of people abandoning the run out of impatience. Ultimately, it's down to the community's social norms and overall willingness to set aside themselves for a few minutes to let new players enjoy their first time experience.

Please be prepared for a lot of heat from your post, it's been the norm for all other threads on the same topic.

[Reality23]

I have mixed opinions about things like this. I just started FF 14 and would like to see the cut scenes at least once when I get that far, but I've also been on the other side of the situation as a veteran player who just wants to get content done. How reasonable the situation is, depends on the specifics. If the healers in the above example made it clear they were new and wanted to watch the cut scenes and everyone stuck around like that was okay until the end and then complained, I'd say not only are the healers in the right, but I hope the boss killed everyone who started the fight. Otherwise though, I do agree with trying to keep to the game's norms.... though to be fair, people who are rushing (which I've read about in other threads) need to understand that new players aren't going to be as good as they are right off the bat, and by being jerks in the short term they are probably going to shoot themselves in the foot. As someone who does a lot of support roles in games, I have literally refused to help people later who were jerks to me when I was starting out. "Oh so now you want me to get on my tank and help you grind some armor? Didn't you make all kinds of insinuations about my probable sex life because I wouldn't pull half a dungeon for you a couple months ago?"

At any rate when it comes to cut scenes I think the solution is actually kind of easy to implement. If they haven't done so already Squeenix could just create a theater for all the cut scenes you've unlocked via dungeons and stuff (I would think they are already in the game and it would be fairly easy to just make them viewable like the intro cinematics). That way new players can just feel free to abort them and can watch them later. No, it's not quite the same experience as watching them when your actually there and trigger them, but it seems like it would be a reasonable compromise.... unless I misunderstand the situation. I know in SWTOR the situation is more complicated because their cinematics are semi-interactive where people need to choose dialogue.

At any rate being new, I am guessing a big part of the problem is the boss was dying easily, and the guys watching the cut scene probably lost their loot/completion credit by not being their for the first phase? If that's the case, that also seems like bad design on Squeenix's part, and they should probably fix it so everyone gets credit just for being there. I can understand them wanting to limit power leveling possibilities (where you can park AFK players at the beginning of a dungeon), but I'd imagine that isn't going to be an issue when it comes to final bosses worthy of their own cinematic introductions.

[LittleImp]

I always wait for new players unless someone else pulls the boss, but I also don't think it's that unreasonable to not want to wait. The game has a monotonous daily reward structure that makes players want to be in and out of duties quickly, so that they can spend the remainder of their limited free-time after work or school pursuing content they're more passionate about.

In alliance raids it tends to be even more pronounced, as you potentially have 23 people waiting sometimes up to 5 minutes for one person, and all it takes is one person to decide that they don't want to wait and initiate combat.

[YukikoKurosawa]

1 person doesn't get to hold up 23 other people in Crystal Tower, same applies for other raids that are years old. You can watch the cutscene and remain invulnerable as long as you do not exit out early, and aren't missing much in later raids because the last actual pre-final boss cutscene is an unskipable transition.

Puppet's Bunker is already a long headache of a raid so I cannot blame anyone who pulls the last boss early, seeing as by that point everyone is desperate to just get out of there.

I mean you joined the raid knowing there would potentially be people new to it, the game even tells you when someone is new to the duty. If you have a problem with it then don't join pugs and make your own parties of people who already have or don't care. Yeah, the content is years old, but for many people it's brand new. Especially seeing as how we've had a surge of new players lately. Some of you forget not everyone has been here for years. Your problem began the moment you started playing a story-focused game, que'd for pug content knowing full well there would be people who, surprise surprise actually want to experience the story in a story-focused game (shocking I know), then got mad about it. Obviously, as someone who's done it already I prefer to not have to wait for people especially when I don't have a lot of time, and when I get a group full of people who auto-skip and we just do the content it's nice, but I accept the reality that I will sometimes have to wait, and respect the people who are going through the story for the first time.

[aveyond-dreams]

Crystal Tower raids = 10 minute max, cutscenes short and sweet

Every other alliance raid after that = frequent KOs due to instawipe mechanics, player performance varying so wildly that most people automatically drop if they get a raid that isn't CT in roulettes. If a group has wasted my time by dragging out the raid to the absurd degree as is often the case in duty finder, then they've lost the right for me to sit tight and let them watch cutscenes in that content.

It doesn't matter whether I'm a healer, tank, or dps, every role can survive a few hits from the boss until someone else inevitably decides to join in.

But do not worry, given the state of Duty Finder and lack of being able to farm for specific gear pieces in a consistent way from alliance raids have all but ensured I do not interact with that roulette in favor of running EW dungeons with trusts. You'd have to give MSQ-roulette amounts of rewards in order to get me to suffer through a typical df run of Puppet's Bunker or goodness forbid Tower of Paradigm's Breach.

So what you're saying is that it perfectly fine to ruin a first timer's experience by being impatient in a roulette where the purpose is to allow first timers to complete the content, including participating in the combat?
And yes, 1 person does get to hold up the others since you are receiving a bonus for there being a first timer in your raid. That's the trade off, or at least intended to be.
Just selfish IMO.

As long as the supposed first-timer doesn't turn a 20 minute run into an hour-long run, they can do whatever they want. But if the clock keeps ticking and we're getting nowhere, I'm pulling. If they can be selfish and queue in without having a clue how to survive the insta-KO mechs, then I can be selfish and pull the final boss early. No amount of appealing to my morality is going to solve the fact that those runs take far too long, and I have the right to do whatever it takes to get out of them faster.

The longest cutscene you'll be waiting for is 1-2 minutes, is 1-2 minutes of your time really that critical?

You completely underestimate how boring it is to sit there and do nothing for 1-2 minutes and how infuriating it can be to do so for a party that for the most part has not been carrying the weight evenly, so I'm going to go ahead and make up for lost time.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done short of keeping the party locked in a preparation bubble a la, the dungeon's start, until the cutscene is done. At that point I'm sure we'd see a rash of people abandoning the run out of impatience. Ultimately, it's down to the community's social norms and overall willingness to set aside themselves for a few minutes to let new players enjoy their first time experience.

Please be prepared for a lot of heat from your post, it's been the norm for all other threads on the same topic.

The real problem with that idea is that other players just bully the person watching cutscenes into skipping so they can continue. That's why Praetorium is now the way it is. What I'm curious about is why players are very consistent with respecting new players watching the story in all other content but suddenly stop caring in Alliance raids.

[Tyjacon]

1 person doesn't get to hold up 23 other people in Crystal Tower, same applies for other raids that are years old. You can watch the cutscene and remain invulnerable as long as you do not exit out early, and aren't missing much in later raids because the last actual pre-final boss cutscene is an unskipable transition.

Puppet's Bunker is already a long headache of a raid so I cannot blame anyone who pulls the last boss early, seeing as by that point everyone is desperate to just get out of there.

So what you're saying is that it perfectly fine to ruin a first timer's experience by being impatient in a roulette where the purpose is to allow first timers to complete the content, including participating in the combat?
And yes, 1 person does get to hold up the others since you are receiving a bonus for there being a first timer in your raid. That's the trade off, or at least intended to be.
Just selfish IMO.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Crystal Tower raids = 10 minute max, cutscenes short and sweet

Every other alliance raid after that = frequent KOs due to instawipe mechanics, player performance varying so wildly that most people automatically drop if they get a raid that isn't CT in roulettes. If a group has wasted my time by dragging out the raid to the absurd degree as is often the case in duty finder, then they've lost the right for me to sit tight and let them watch cutscenes in that content.

It doesn't matter whether I'm a healer, tank, or dps, every role can survive a few hits from the boss until someone else inevitably decides to join in.

But do not worry, given the state of Duty Finder and lack of being able to farm for specific gear pieces in a consistent way from alliance raids have all but ensured I do not interact with that roulette in favor of running EW dungeons with trusts. You'd have to give MSQ-roulette amounts of rewards in order to get me to suffer through a typical df run of Puppet's Bunker or goodness forbid Tower of Paradigm's Breach.

No amount of appealing to my morality is going to solve the fact that those runs take far too long, and I have the right to do whatever it takes to get out of them faster.

I'd be more concerned about people who deliberately grief the raid like the frogs in Amon where people will burn all the ice so we wipe, or jokers like the one dude in my last Tower at Paradigms Breach party who joined in fully broken gear, cast one spell every 5 minutes, and deliberately got himself killed repeatedly and then refused to take rezzes until we just ended up vote-kicking him, then people who have the gall to watch cutscenes. It's an overall issue of anti-social behavior exclusive to Alliance Raids.

The longest cutscene you'll be waiting for is 1-2 minutes, is 1-2 minutes of your time really that critical?