The idea that we need to DPS must go.

[MerlinCross]

its still a bad idea to do so on the off chance one of them misclicks onto here

Not really. I just picture they’d have that one reaction Patrick Star had in Spongebob.

“Who are you people?!?!?”

[Nerfworthy]

No. I veto this thread in its entirety.

I mained SCH since SB because I like the idea of a "battle medic". SCH slowly started turning away from that playstyle once they gutted our DPS kit.

I have since changed to SGE because it truly embodies what I wanted in a healer: damage to heal, and heal to damage!

What I mean by that is, I love the design that you need to have broken shields to gain Addersting charges which you can use to DPS. That's cool. You can also place Kardion on whoever will be taking the most consistent damage and it applies a percentage of your damage as healing to that person. That is what I wanted in a battle medic class. I love it.

[Saefinn]

I refuse to believe that a stat that starts out at a third the value of other core stats actually brings significant value to anything.

Frankly, It's less about the numbers and more about the mentality which ends up making bad healers out of people. This wasn't an honest mistake. (You don't accidentally pentameld DH in a bunch of pieces of gear.) This was done with intent and it was apparent through the whole run of the dungeon. As the title of this thread suggests, the idea that healers need to DPS needs to go. Everything goes smoother when you have someone that's actually focused on helping maintain the people that actually bring the DPS.

You had a healer that was doing things wrong, sure. There can be a plethora of reasons why, but if at the end of the day they couldn't keep people's health above 50% when there were raid wides that took more than 50% of their health then maybe it wasn't a simple mistake, especially if this was persistent. I sincerely doubt their melding choice affected it. But my thought on it is, so what? It's the dice you roll when you use Duty Finder or PUG, players who struggle to play well is nothing new to the MMORPG genre or exclusive to healing.

In my experience there's also a lot of tanks and DPS who don't do very well either and often or not I pick up their slack. I've never once thought "they need to dumb down elements of their jobs to make it easy", because if we start doing that, it's just a recipe for blandless...I say that, the devs have already started doing that. But I've never asked for any DPS jobs to be watered down so they can meet DPS checks and do mechanics better, nor have I have ask tanks to be watered down to make survival easier, DPS easier or holding aggro easier (but they did it anyway). Why? Because it'd make for a bland gameplay experience. The complaint if anything is the player is getting it wrong. I think a fun game where some people get it wrong is better than a bland game where everybody gets it right.

With the player getting stuff wrong, there's of course room for acceptance, people can get things wrong, they can make mistakes, they can be inexperienced, they can have the wrong attitude, they can be misinformed, they can have a certain handicap affecting them and so on. You're not always going to get it and it's the luck of the draw.

To my mind a better way of mitigating that is providing better tools for learning. Back when I started the natural progression of levelling and progressing through story sufficed, because from level 1 to 50, it was a steady progression of difficulty and a gradual acquisition of abilities to get used to and content that steadily increased in difficulty and threw in DPS, healer and tank checks. Each of the 3 primals themselves had their own separate checks, with Ifrit having a DPS check, Titan having a healer check and Garuda having a tank check, this much was also true of the Hard Modes. I've been around long enough to remember Tanks LBing on Garuda NM and Mage LB3 being almost essential to Ifrit HM. Nowadays all that content is a joke and doesn't provide that benefit and you'll have people get one job to 90 and then maybe jump potion the next or pick up something like SGE at level 70.

However, I think something like a "Hall of the Apprentice" and a "Training Journal" as an extension of the "Hall of the Novice" is something that could help. Attach a reward at the end too for incentive. The "Hall of the Apprentice" could be where people get more intermediate and advanced lessons on their role and it could the place where healers can learn to prioritise healing over DPS and it could be where the devs promote the idea that DPS is secondary and optional but there if it's needed. It could also help with basic rotations for DPS and sustaining uptime during mechanics and it could also help with tanks managing their cooldowns and ensuring they sustain aggro on all enemies including new ones that show. The "Training Journal" would be a list of dungeons & trials (in a certain order) they can complete where they might be useful practice for certain things covered by Hall of the Apprentice. And if anything, it'd be more rewarding.

[Neihel]

I looked up OP on lodestone and he doesn't even play the game anymore his highest level is 80 white mage

[Kirundo]

Right now in raid and dingeons it's "spam your 1 button, weaving some ogcd mits or heals when needed".
We need either a more engaging dps rotations or a more intensive healing.

[ty_taurus]

I looked up OP on lodestone and he doesn't even play the game anymore his highest level is 80 white mage

Well the OP originally started this thread 3 years ago, so it's not really shocking that they've not leveled to 90.

[Azurarok]

Right now in raid and dingeons it's "spam your 1 button, weaving some gcd mits or heals when needed".
We need either a more engaging dps rotations or a more intensive healing.

Healing/Tanking mob pulls in dungeons have generally been fun imo, especially with Sage, while many DPS jobs tend to have slightly less interesting rotations for those.

Healing bosses is where it gets less fun since there's a lot more downtime and outside some oGCDs and Sage's Phlegma it usually devolves into you spamming your single target dps skill while refreshing your DoT every now and then, and EW's further amplified that by making Tank self-heals as good as they are now.

That isn't to say Tanks shouldn't be as good at self-heals, but more that we have some room for an actual dps rotation now

[MerlinCross]

Well the OP originally started this thread 3 years ago, so it's not really shocking that they've not leveled to 90.

Even if that's the case, I'm playing WHM at 80, trying to get it up and I just.... nooooooope.

And I'm not even an uber high end healer. If I can point out the problem, there's something wrong.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Right now in raid and dingeons it's "spam your 1 button, weaving some gcd mits or heals when needed".
We need either a more engaging dps rotations or a more intensive healing.

I doubt they'll give these to us, very unlikely. Especially when they've made their intent to dumb down both sides of spectrum very clear.

At best they'll think bumping up or down potencies slightly is all they need to magically 'fix' that.

[localman]

This endgame is the same over and over again.... It constantly demands more and even more to meet numbers and "performance".

This is how a role in a role-playing game is trampled underfoot.
It's the same nonsense everywhere. You choose a role and then you are no longer happy with it, because the principle of perfection of a competitive game requires you to go the extra mile.
So you are no longer a healer at some point, but a DD who is also supposed to heal.
That's what all this nonsense boils down to.

In an RPG, I pick a role and want to be exactly that. And if I play a healer, then I am a healer and don't want to and shouldn't do damage. And if the fight is serene and I have time to look at more than the HP bars of my comrades, then I enjoy the fact that it goes well.

No scream the virtual competitive players of a spreadsheet game.... If you don't need to heal for 10 seconds, then do damage, help with the pro... uh increase the DPS so that we also get everything out of it...

We are enslaved by a stupid system in an RPG that makes a nonsense of everything around it that once made these games. And for what exactly?

No, the MMORPG/aRPG genre is running into a dead end. Please finally separate like PvP and PvE also this sport part from the games. Stop adding solo quest tunnels in turbo to these games and let's resurrect the MMORPG together with all its great possibilities and content.
Give the players who really only want to play a virtual sports game their playground, or make it a genre of its own.... This also saves a lot of costs, because basically these players don't like a path as a goal anyway. They just need a little arena with bosses, loot and mechanics and of course the spreadsheet that goes along with it.

RPGers, however, want to play a game, and not transfer, from the movie Lord of the Rings just chew through the last minute of the final battle over and over again. They want to see the whole movie and love the journey and all the things that make up such a game.

The Endgame in all honor, but as it is currently represented in this genre, it is simply a huge juggernaut that has decomposed everything and after which everything is aligned.... That's really terrible to watch and the com has also developed absolutely detrimental in all the time, because of this principle.


And even though I may sound like a bad-tempered curmudgeon, in truth I just love the RPG and defend the true values of this genre here. I am the friend of every real MMORPGler...

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