Dark Knights are an absolute joke and I'm tired of pretending they're not

[Malthir]

Exactly, DPS is a secondary job of a Tank.

Survival is the main job.

Not entirely true, your job as a tank is to be the person that gets hit as opposed to the party getting hit, however they destroyed the notion of aggro and tank switching in order to focused the fights on playing dance dance revolution. The job of a tank no longer existed so they artifically created one via tank busters. Now your job is to DPS and use buffs and moves to mitigate or self heal.

The healers job is to ensure the survival of the tank but because they broke the job of the tank and the tanks responsibilities took over part of the healer role, they broke healers too. Now healers jobs is to DPS and throw the occasional heal onto the tanks or anyone stupid enough to stand in a GIANT GLOWING CIRCLE.

[Oizen]

Exactly, DPS is a secondary job of a Tank.

Survival is the main job.

Doesn't this just boil down to "press big shield button during big boss attack"

[NightHour]

Doesn't this just boil down to "press big shield button during big boss attack"

And you find that fun?


Because after playing with Heart of Corundum and Bloodwhetting, I don't think so personally.

[Archwizard]

The one thing I think that needs a sort of emergency fix right now is the living dead.

... no, that alone will not solve DRK's relative fragility.

Don't get me wrong, Living Dead is objectively the worst immune available to any tank for a multitude of reasons we've already covered, and absolutely needs a complete rework on its own merits.
As I've suggested before, just make it give immunity but sap health (or barriers) over 10 sec. Way easier to deal with and you can actually see if you need to panic.

But fixing an immune skill will not resolve the "emergency" of -- in my experience as a healer -- DRKs panic-popping theirs more often (and generally, earlier in dungeons) than other tanks in the first place.
Like, if PLD was having survival issues, the fix wouldn't be letting them HG more often. We'd be scrutinizing every other tool they had first. (It just happens that LD, also, but separately, is bad.)

And in this case, DRK has:

• Dark Mind, which is useless in most pulls (especially compared to Thrill of Battle and Camouflage) because no pack is majority magic damage
• The worst 82 upgrade, Oblation, which needs to be stacked with other tools to be worthwhile
• The only non-survival 84 upgrade, probably because Oblation already comes with two charges
• An on-demand mitigation that costs MP (putting it on the same effective CD as other tanks) and is designed to absorb a heavy burst but not periods of sustained damage; it's already basically the 4 second upfront defense boost other on-demands get at 82, but doesn't have that whole "actual mitigation and healing" that comes after that period
• A singular self-healing CD that is a damage loss below 4 targets because it shares a CD with another attack (which doesn't heal), and needs at least 6 targets to match Equilibrium and Aurora... before their respective 84 upgrades that double their effectiveness

... to say nothing of how late it gets an on-demand or its raidwide mitigation skill compared to other tanks.

Now, can it survive a wall-to-wall with several TBNs, role actions (incl. Shadow Wall) and a well-timed AD? Sure. But it's burning through 'em twice as fast due to lack of buffers.

TBN pushed off the issue of DRK's survival kit being completely lackluster. Oopsie, now that's caught up to DRK.

[Padudu]

This is a clear exaggeration of what the DRK critics are actually saying, but that that's tossed around more than once is making me wonder if I missed something.

Have you read the title of this thread? C'mon man calling DRK an "absolute joke" is just as much as an exaggeration lol. Yes they have lower sustain than other tanks, yes they're harder to heal, but no it's not impossible to survive trash mobs. Hell here's the OP right here:

I have no idea if the defense values are just lower than other tanks, but I have barely any survivability

"barely any survivability"? lol c'mon man we both know this also isn't true. It has the least, sure, but not "barely". It's definitely workable, just not ideal at its current state. The OP states that their healers consistently have had trouble keeping them up during wall-to-walls in dungeons, that is likely an OP problem with their gear/rotation if "most healers" cannot keep them alive.

We have like, what, 5 threads on the front page about DRK being bad and unworkable lol and a huge circle fest of 'DRK unplayable and broken' when in reality they just need some good qol fixes.

[Archwizard]

"barely any survivability"? lol c'mon man we both know this also isn't true.

I agree it's an exaggeration, but I think you're reading it too much at face value.
For any tank, the role actions alone (and I include the 30% for 15s on a 2m CD all tanks get at 38) can do half the work for your survival in a wall-to-wall. Or almost all of it pre-50 for most tanks. Really, the combination could make a semi-passable tank out of almost any job with access to them, provided you use them well.

As I've been saying though, DRK burns through those fast because most of its personal tools are insufficient and/or lackluster, which is my takeaway from the intent of the quotation.

[Dracosavarian]

Have you read the title of this thread? C'mon man calling DRK an "absolute joke" is just as much as an exaggeration lol. Yes they have lower sustain than other tanks, yes they're harder to heal, but no it's not impossible to survive trash mobs. Hell here's the OP right here:



"barely any survivability"? lol c'mon man we both know this also isn't true. It has the least, sure, but not "barely". It's definitely workable, just not ideal at its current state. The OP states that their healers consistently have had trouble keeping them up during wall-to-walls in dungeons, that is likely an OP problem with their gear/rotation if "most healers" cannot keep them alive.

We have like, what, 5 threads on the front page about DRK being bad and unworkable lol and a huge circle fest of 'DRK unplayable and broken' when in reality they just need some good qol fixes.

You are taking their statement and immediately running with the worst case scenario of it as a criticism, when you know very well what the OP meant.

If they had stated instead, “ It FEELS like I have barely any survivability. “ You’d probably be running far less in the extreme sense of hyperbole as you have been.


Also, I have to laugh at all of these people coming into the thread with personal attacks. Shows a real lack of character in my opinion. Heaven forbid those of us who mained Dark Knight since release ( For me, even all the way back in FF 11 ) and love this job with all of their heart want to see their concerns heard and addressed.

But yeah, sure. Let’s just attack them on a personal level and call them into question. Frustrating to see that.

Dark Knight has issues. They aren’t catastrophic. But gods does the class need a rework and a course correction, asap


I’ve said my peace. I’m out. Not gonna bother replying to anyone either, as I’d rather the thread serve a constructive discussion then a tit for tat argument exchange.

[Padudu]

You are taking their statement and immediately running with the worst case scenario of it as a criticism, when you know very well what the OP meant.

If they had stated instead, “ It FEELS like I have barely any survivability. “ You’d probably be running far less in the extreme sense of hyperbole as you have been.


Also, I have to laugh at all of these people coming into the thread with personal attacks. Shows a real lack of character in my opinion. Heaven forbid those of us who mained Dark Knight since release ( For me, even all the way back in FF 11 ) and love this job with all of their heart want to see their concerns heard and addressed.

But yeah, sure. Let’s just attack them on a personal level and call them into question. Frustrating to see that.

Dark Knight has issues. They aren’t catastrophic. But gods does the class need a rework and a course correction, asap


I’ve said my peace. I’m out. Not gonna bother replying to anyone either, as I’d rather the thread serve a constructive discussion then a tit for tat argument exchange.

lol bro, get off of your high horse.

And read their other posts, I took that quote out specifically but their other posts are about the healer struggling to keep up multiple times in the thread. I'm literally taking what they said because they supported that statement multiple times.

Again, if you struggle to pull mobs that's on you fam. There's nothing personal about it lul. Stop making it out to be like I'm attacking the OP's honor here when the OP is written based on their experiences with the job so of course their gear/rotation/mitigation and what else will come into question when they say they're having a hard time on something that's doable even with DRK having issues.

[Danelo]

The point of all these threads seems to be that DRK needs a rework and the only hopium silver lining of the the 6.x DRK is that maybe devs did such a shit job because they planned on reworking it and are doing so an will announce it ahead of the next patch.

[shao32]

That's a lot of hopium considering we are talking about this dev team and DRK the job that has get so much disservice from them but i wish you are right.