Does 14 Promote a Culture of Mediocrity?

[BaconBits]

The best way to teach is to say nothing at all. If you're not a personal friend of mine or someone that is actively trying to learn, why should I give a damn whether you're struggling with a class or not? And if you find yourself in a duty struggling to avoid aoes and find safe spots, maybe I'll put a little blue dorito over my head and be a guide. Nothing more, nothing less. I've had a few too many incidents where I tried to reach out and give basic advice like "please use aoes for 3 or more enemies" or "better to use cure 2 instead of relying on freecure" only to be met with "I know how to play x" or "You do your job, I'll do mine". I have yet to get a "You don't pay my sub" though somehow. And though it feels good to actually get through to someone and get a "hey thanks for the advice" every once in a while, it's just not worth the headache anymore.

And before anyone even thinks of saying stuff like "Maybe it's just your tone" or "Perhaps you sound too passive-aggressive", stop. Just stop. I police myself enough as is before even considering whether or not I should speak up and offer advice to anyone, even if it's clear that they desperately need it. It is so exhausting having to word any advice I give as carefully as possible knowing full well that it could still be rejected wholesale and thrown back in my face. Even moreso when other members in a party might decide to jump to their defense and possibly dog pile and/or kick me from the party for even having the audacity to not keep my trap shut.

So I just don't offer advice anymore. And it's been a load off my shoulders ever since.

[linayar]

My post was more on the state of job and role design and content that is not savage and the frustration it can bring.

As someone who only does those kinds of contents, I rarely see any problem.

So, if other people are having problem, the question is to what extent does this problem actually exists within the community (and no, a popular thread or even a subreddit does not make a problem common/universal, merely that it continues to exist for some people).

And why are people frustrated in contents that usually don't require dps check or other stricter requirements? As other people have said, the normal contents in this game are generally easy in difficulty, and again, mediocrity is not about being bad, but being mediocre. And as a mediocre (or worse) player myself, I rarely have people take issues with my playstyle, nor do I see substantial issues often from others as well (though of course they exist, though some due to being new).

In fact, the general trend seems to be to enter, greet, be silent, be thankful, and leave for most dungeon/trial/raid/alliance raid runs. That is what it means to be mediocre in FFXIV: no mess, no problem, no frustration, no toxicity.

[TaleraRistain]

As an actual teacher, what you said is not all that accurate. Anyone can teach. Anyone can learn. None of us stop doing either in our lifetimes.

Someone teaching someone else is not inherently toxic at all. Throwing a fuss, because someone is pointing out your mistakes is.

But the part you're missing is the environment. I mentor and train at my workplace, too. The difference there with being a teacher or mentor is that the environment has been established that learning will take place and that the students or trainee is there to learn from the teacher or mentor so they are pre-receptive to dialogue on the subject.

That's not the case in an online video game. It is possible to help others in game. But there's a necessary step of offering the help first and setting up that learning environment where someone is open to what someone has to teach. Many people try to shortcut this or consider it "coddling" so of course the person having instruction pushed on them isn't going to be receptive to it. They've done nothing to make sure the person will be.

[Alzinor]

I mean where in my post did I bemoan the state of savage? It's actually one of the areas the game has done well since HW. Just wish there was more of it. My post was more on the state of job and role design and content that is not savage and the frustration it can bring. Savage by its nature tends to filter out the less able, and more often than not, the lazy.

I wasn't specifically targeting someone.

[TaleraRistain]

As to the original subject, one thing I'm not sure was mentioned since I haven't read all pages of the thread but some of these changes to streamline and simplify the class itself have allowed them to make more complex mechanics. For instance, there was always an amount of movement in trials. But that has increased exponentially over the years. So they have had to streamline some things about classes that worked against those types of mechanics. When I heard Enochian and Blood of the Dragon were becoming traits I was very happy. And I can say that doing EW trial 1 and not having to worry about maintaining either of those was such a relief. I could still screw up my rotation on both classes otherwise. They just streamlined a piece and made me not have to worry about it so I could worry about what was going on in the arena more. I would say we're seeing a shift where the complexity is focused on mechanics much more. And in doing that, the burden of complexity falls on all party members, not just the one or two who were unlucky enough to have very involved gameplay on top of having to do those mechanics.

[Nerfworthy]

I like that we have all types of different skill levels with each player, and as a healer main myself I enjoy the wall-to-wall pulls and hectic fights because that engages me. However, when I'm with someone with less experience, I just talk to them and let them know they can pull more if they want and I can keep them up, but if they dont feel comfortable with it I am fine to also go at their pace and even help them learn.

Reading the room and communication really goes a long way in this game.

[MiaShino]

As to the original subject, one thing I'm not sure was mentioned since I haven't read all pages of the thread but some of these changes to streamline and simplify the class itself have allowed them to make more complex mechanics. For instance, there was always an amount of movement in trials. But that has increased exponentially over the years.

I really really do not enjoy that direction much if there is honesty. I feel same way about this that I do about cannons in any old content they appear in.

I signed up to play white mage not cannon lackey or DDR with landmines. Much like all the rhythm games you will eventually memorize and perfect the dance so that it no longer occupies majority of mental faculties. After this the mind shall wander possibly to your rotation and how that can be optimized, where you may find it lacking.

This is role playing game so would most like to succeed because I fulfilled my role and not because I ran to waymark A, then waymark D, then back to H1 position at waymark C at the two minute mark.

One of most enjoyable experiences I have ever had in FF14 land comes from the final fight of Rabanastre with mostly new persons present, myself included. Ohhhhhh boy does that start off deceptively only to transform into this big huge two part gauntlet. The run through the trenches, the attrition I felt stabilizing the party, the bursts of outgoing damage towards the end healer check. One misplaced ogcd, one mistimed heal and someone would experience demise. The mind raced as I pondered holding aetherflow to actually heal instead of dumping all into energy drain. I was playing my class. I was support. I felt essential and not simply because big raid wide at thirty seconds into split buster repeating at one minute intervals.

I wish to fail because I did not white mage properly, not because I was slightly off on my figure eight through the alternating aoe circles in game notorious for latency issues.

[TaleraRistain]

I really really do not enjoy that direction much if there is honesty. I feel same way about this that I do about cannons in any old content they appear in.

I signed up to play white mage not cannon lackey or DDR with landmines. Much like all the rhythm games you will eventually memorize and perfect the dance so that it no longer occupies majority of mental faculties. After this the mind shall wander possibly to your rotation and how that can be optimized, where you may find it lacking.

This is role playing game so would most like to succeed because I fulfilled my role and not because I ran to waymark A, then waymark D, then back to H1 position at waymark C at the two minute mark.

One of most enjoyable experiences I have ever had in FF14 land comes from the final fight of Rabanastre with mostly new persons present, myself included. Ohhhhhh boy does that start off deceptively only to transform into this big huge two part gauntlet. The run through the trenches, the attrition I felt stabilizing the party, the bursts of outgoing damage towards the end healer check. One misplaced ogcd, one mistimed heal and someone would experience demise. The mind raced as I pondered holding aetherflow to actually heal instead of dumping all into energy drain. I was playing my class. I was support. I felt essential and not simply because big raid wide at thirty seconds into split buster repeating at one minute intervals.

I wish to fail because I did not white mage properly, not because I was slightly off on my figure eight through the alternating aoe circles in game notorious for latency issues.

NGL I'm not hot on the trend myself. It lost me my gaming buddy. My hubby just got too much sensory overload with everything going on and couldn't keep up, so it wasn't fun anymore. He quit after 5.3.

I can see the benefit in spreading out the responsibility because I do think it was unfairly burdensome on more complex classes in the past to have to do their class gameplay *and* the fight gameplay. But like you said, the DDR with landmines gameplay loses its complexity when you memorize the pattern and get the muscle memory down. I think that's why as a fellow WHM main, I enjoy PUGs and especially running with new folks. There's that element of the unexpected in a group that's struggling that really tests my ability to adapt. I'm not sure how SE could fix this, outside of adding in more randomness to fights, which comes with its own set of problems.

[Arillyn]

I really really do not enjoy that direction much if there is honesty. I feel same way about this that I do about cannons in any old content they appear in.

I signed up to play white mage not cannon lackey or DDR with landmines. Much like all the rhythm games you will eventually memorize and perfect the dance so that it no longer occupies majority of mental faculties. After this the mind shall wander possibly to your rotation and how that can be optimized, where you may find it lacking.

This is role playing game so would most like to succeed because I fulfilled my role and not because I ran to waymark A, then waymark D, then back to H1 position at waymark C at the two minute mark.

One of most enjoyable experiences I have ever had in FF14 land comes from the final fight of Rabanastre with mostly new persons present, myself included. Ohhhhhh boy does that start off deceptively only to transform into this big huge two part gauntlet. The run through the trenches, the attrition I felt stabilizing the party, the bursts of outgoing damage towards the end healer check. One misplaced ogcd, one mistimed heal and someone would experience demise. The mind raced as I pondered holding aetherflow to actually heal instead of dumping all into energy drain. I was playing my class. I was support. I felt essential and not simply because big raid wide at thirty seconds into split buster repeating at one minute intervals.

I wish to fail because I did not white mage properly, not because I was slightly off on my figure eight through the alternating aoe circles in game notorious for latency issues.

I have to agree. My reflexes are not what they used to be and the DDR trend is making it more and more apparent. And then if I'm also dealing with any latency issues at the time, I'm really gonna be dead on the floor. And I've been dead on the floor A LOT more than normal this expansion. I apologize to everyone I've been in DF/PF with and I've hit the floor!

[Zsolen]

...

Please stop typing out multiple paragraphs and being passive aggressive the entire time, while making no actual point with them. You are not being honest, and it shows.

Why are you randomly talking about clear parties? In what clear party are people face tanking?

You are also making up scenarios I was never in and do not apply to the face tank scenario I gave.