The idea that we need to DPS must go.

[Sebazy]

I refuse to believe that a stat that starts out at a third the value of other core stats actually brings significant value to anything.

Frankly, It's less about the numbers and more about the mentality which ends up making bad healers out of people. This wasn't an honest mistake. (You don't accidentally pentameld DH in a bunch of pieces of gear.) This was done with intent and it was apparent through the whole run of the dungeon. As the title of this thread suggests, the idea that healers need to DPS needs to go. Everything goes smoother when you have someone that's actually focused on helping maintain the people that actually bring the DPS.

The healer was just bad. Their melds have nothing to do with it

[RinaShinomiya]

DH healers are really messing things up out there. I just ran into yet another example that couldn't keep all group members over 50% in a simple dungeon, so when we got double room wides on a boss, only the tank was left. If people really want to DPS that bad, play a proper DPS class. Healers are there to heal, not try to milk a stat that's already so low and do next to nothing helpful for the group.

The truth is you had a bad healer in your party.
You don't need to meld Materia at all to finish every piece of content that isn't savage or ultimate so them melding DH is completely irrelevant.

[MiaShino]

The truth is you had a bad healer in your party.
You don't need to meld Materia at all to finish every piece of content that isn't savage or ultimate so them melding DH is completely irrelevant.

If they are synced down tis disabled anyway so irrelevant. Brings great feist to see direct hit being shamed again because it can be most useful even when not in high level content (undersized, over world, etc).

[Rilifane]

I refuse to believe that a stat that starts out at a third the value of other core stats actually brings significant value to anything.

Frankly, It's less about the numbers and more about the mentality which ends up making bad healers out of people. This wasn't an honest mistake. (You don't accidentally pentameld DH in a bunch of pieces of gear.) This was done with intent and it was apparent through the whole run of the dungeon. As the title of this thread suggests, the idea that healers need to DPS needs to go. Everything goes smoother when you have someone that's actually focused on helping maintain the people that actually bring the DPS.

You can believe what you want, there is actual math for it.
You just admitted that you have no idea how it works but blamed it anyway.

What you got is a healer making a mistake not by melding DH but by not using enough oGCDs or even GCDs to keep you alive.
And if you were synced, melds don't make any difference at all because syncing removes all materia effects.
Before you blindly blame something, at least do some research.

I repeat: you had one bad experience, one bad healer. That's it. Get over it, move on with your life and don't try to destroy a whole role even more just because you can't handle getting the occasional bad egg.
Nobody here demands tanks only have 1-2 combo so they can focus on mitigation but I guarantee that everyone had plenty of bad experiences with tanks, causing them to die/ wipe/ waste a lot of time. It's not the fault of a proper dps rotation that some tanks don't mitigate, it's because the player is bad and has a lot of room for improvement.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

DH. Direct Hit Rate. The stat healers and tanks lack. Why are healers melding for a stat that starts off as low as it does and ultimately making it harder for themselves to keep a group running through basic mechanics? There's no practical reason melding this, even in harder content. Bumping determination means heals and nukes are stronger and you ultimately get to heal for more with fewer casts and DPS til your heart's content.

Funnily enough, even if they meld 100% determination or even piety, those dps spells are still going to be the button they use 90% of time. If they misjudge, you, their party member—will still die. Do your own experiment: meld every possible slot with determination materia and see how much healing it boosts. One thing I am sure of: you will be disappointed.

Not even all those melds will reduce the amount of healing actions you need to throw out to heal people up by significant margin. So why bother increasing the 10% while you can gain more return by investing on the actual thing you do most of time; the 90% pressing dps button?

The fact that you mentioned ”there’s no practical reason” shows that you’ve never seen the actual calculation behind these stats yet choose to believe the vague tooltip description that the game given to the player without actually seeing the effect in real practice.

[Verlane]

Holy is only effective for 3 casts, then your tank is stuck not being able to stun certain actions. If you're failing a DPS check in EX / Savage, the problem is definitely not solved by forsaking a prime stat like Det in order to pentameld DH. Did you ever consider the fact that Healer nukes are as strong as they are because they have to heal as well? It's clearly in there as a supplement and a way to get through solo content.

Give me an example of things tanks want to stun that isn't something you can use interject on. I can't think of any trash pulls worth holding holy on at all.

[MiaShino]

Someone does not understand concept of the diminishing returns at'all me thinks.

Know what else they do not understand? The importance of gcd uptime! Rocking that sweet seventh percentile on normal mode Phoinix with total gcd uptime of 52%. Nice!

Convenient that forbidden website when some troglodyte decides to go on tirade about nonsense about some experience they had in one dungeon. That same someone wishes to inflict their play style on others by forcing us to adapt to yee ol thumb up the posterior while we wait for the next health bar to promptly top off.

You kinda know someone has completely lost the plot when they believe stunning one mob > eight fricken seconds of free invuln and a pack of mobs that is now dead faster so you are no longer taking damage.

Determination is not prime healer stat for melds, it varies between healer jobs by the twelve! Tis closer to Crit > Sps (unless white mage) > direct hit > determination. You can swap direct hit or determination depending on situation or healer of choice much like the spell speed. Mmhmm because let me tell you, when I dump a whole load of 900 potency Pneuma into the party what am really thinking is; "Boy oh boy do I wish this hit just a little harder!" Not as if I am sitting on Holos, Ixochole, Panhaima, and Physis all ogcd or multiple 10% mitigations. You can even gasp move Kardia around so you can heal other party members while still dealing damage. Perhaps even slap Soteria if are feeling the spicy.

Go home Vulnstackulius, just be careful not to bump into anything on your way. With that many stacks you are likely one shot away from becoming floor decoration.

Poor Excalibur, I only chose you because of the name but it seems you are infected..

[MerlinCross]

Give me an example of things tanks want to stun that isn't something you can use interject on. I can't think of any trash pulls worth holding holy on at all.

...Okay it's NOT really worth holding against them but the only thing that springs to mind are Bees/Wasp style enemies. The type of enemy that doesn't run up and use their best attack at first but waits just a bit. Two-three Holys would make them immune to stuns and let them fire off that baby tank buster they have which CAN be pretty noticeable depending on the level and gear.

That said, I can only maybe think of 3 dungeons that actually feature the enemy type and I can't think of another enemy model that has a delayed heavy hit like that. Nor have I played Qarn, Saint Mocianne or Neverreap in.... a very long time. SO I can't recall if you can Interject those. And by this point, 2 are old dungeons you don't need, Qarn might be required still but is so early you're NOT going to have Holy anyway. And even then that would require the target to.... live through 3 holys along with two DPS worth of AoE going off, and maybe a tank hitting them. THEN Live long enough to fire it off.

Is it a GOOD example? No but it's the only thing I can think of where withholding a Holy could even be thought of at all.

[Mortex]

I refuse to believe that a stat that starts out at a third the value of other core stats actually brings significant value to anything.

Frankly, It's less about the numbers and more about the mentality which ends up making bad healers out of people. This wasn't an honest mistake. (You don't accidentally pentameld DH in a bunch of pieces of gear.) This was done with intent and it was apparent through the whole run of the dungeon. As the title of this thread suggests, the idea that healers need to DPS needs to go. Everything goes smoother when you have someone that's actually focused on helping maintain the people that actually bring the DPS.

Are you going to be shocked if I tell you spell speed is the best stat at the moment in the first savage raid tier you can have ?

Like we talk about 2.09 gcd plus double weaving under lightspeed. So that’s 0.59 seconds error margin because a ogcd locks you out of the gcd by 0.75 and that times two cause astro is almost heavy. You could actually learn piano and not get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and learn something to impress people or you play astro.

And here comes the kicker sch goes for a 2.32 gcd gear set as bis. Whm can’t because you run out of mana in like 2 minutes and sage takes 2.45 gcd.

[Aword3213]

Give me an example of things tanks want to stun that isn't something you can use interject on. I can't think of any trash pulls worth holding holy on at all.

Twinning comes to mind if there's a situation I'd rather WHM hold their Holy for some few seconds as a tank.

There are 2 Reptoid in a pack of mobs before the 2nd boss. They will cast Berserk and grant themselves Physical Damage Up for like 18 seconds. They hit very hard with that buff.

It can be interjected, but they will recast it again before Interject comes back up. Normally, I would stun 1 Reptoid and Interject the other to prevent them from getting the buff completely, but it's not possible with WHM. (don't expect ranged DPS help with interject because dps being dps)

However, it's not that it's impossible to heal through though. It just requires some extra work from healers. Experienced WHM won't drop the tank because of that.