Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

[Leiron]

The argumentation that jobs with buffs shouldn't be able to catch up with their buffs because of the fact they have a buff leads me to believe that jobs within a role should either all have buffs or none have buffs. Having people believe a different playstyle should be worse off than them is a detriment to the game.

That is incredibly untrue.
Class A does personal damage of 600, but gives everyone a 200 DPS buff.
Class B does personal damage of 800, but gives no one a buff.
That is balanced, because even though Class B sits at 1000 when buffed, class A has increased everyone's damage to a total of 1600.

Class B literally cannot exist if you buffed Class A within the 2 to 3% range of it. Simply because that 2 to 3% difference is negligible through the raid wide contribution.
So for what purpose would you ever put Class B in the game, when Class A can perform almost as perfectly, but has the additional benefit of a raid wide buff?
That is completely detrimental to the game and reduces the variety of what the players can use.
If you want to be support, then it makes sense your personal damage isn't as high.

Don't misunderstand, if there was a HUGE gap, well over 10%, I would agree with changes needing to be made, but based off that percentile, BLM is above RDM/SMN by single digits.

[Zacheris]

That is incredibly untrue.
Class A does personal damage of 600, but gives everyone a 200 DPS buff.
Class B does personal damage of 800, but gives no one a buff.
That is balanced, because even though Class B sits at 1000 when buffed, class A has increased everyone's damage to a total of 1600.

Class B literally cannot exist if you buffed Class A within the 2 to 3% range of it. Simply because that 2 to 3% difference is negligible through the raid wide contribution.
So for what purpose would you ever put Class B in the game, when Class A can perform almost as perfectly, but has the additional benefit of a raid wide buff?
That is completely detrimental to the game and reduces the variety of what the players can use.
If you want to be support, then it makes sense your personal damage isn't as high.

In your example, Class B would be doing ~825 after raid buffs are applied to them. Why bring another buff job that can't utilize its party's buffs as well? Why bring along that buff job when its personal damage is so much less? Do you understand how demoralizing it is to see players of selfish job argue for everybody else to be worse off? I see it all the time and I really don't think it's a healthy mindset for the game's community to have, no matter which way it swings. The game has been on the path of homogenization precisely because the game's community has acted this way towards discrepensies between jobs, and it'll continue as long as these sorts of arguments continue. Samurai and black mages already have buttons they press every 2 minutes, one of them applying a buff to the party is such a minor detail I don't see why not.

[Leiron]

In your example, Class B would be doing ~825 after raid buffs are applied to them.

While contributing well over 1k in damage to everyone else. That isn't something that should be ignored. That's really good, above what Class B is providing on its own.

Why bring another buff job that can't utilize its party's buffs as well? Why bring along that buff job when its personal damage is so much less? Do you understand how demoralizing it is to see players of selfish job argue for everybody else to be worse off? I see it all the time and I really don't think it's a healthy mindset for the game's community to have, no matter which way it swings. The game has been on the path of homogenization precisely because the game's community has acted this way towards discrepensies between jobs, and it'll continue as long as these sorts arguments continue. Samurai and black mages already have buttons they press every 2 minutes, one of them applying a buff to the party is such a minor detail I don't see why not.

Simple, because jobs that provide support abilities should not also get the ability to do top damage.
This means that "selfish" jobs have no purpose in existing within the game's design. Ergo, no purpose in being played, ergo, might as well not exist.
This was the literal state of the game prior to the 6.08 patch.
RPR was outperforming every DPS class except for Monk within raids.

By your reasoning, this was perfectly acceptable. It was making use of its own buffs just as effectively as the selfish classes who had no buffing capability.
That isn't balanced, and its pretty harmful. It means SAM/BLM had no place whatsoever in any composition, because you would just put more RPR in.
There was absolutely no benefit to having a SAM/BLM in the comp, and if anything, players who enjoyed those jobs had no return for their playstyle.

A game that is balanced does not always mean fair.
Not everyone gets the same size of cake, but that's okay because not everyone's cake slice has the same toppings.

Mind you, I am not saying you are wrong. I am simply saying that I disagree with your design philosophy for the game. You're just as right as I am, and I am just as wrong.

[Zacheris]

While contributing well over 1k in damage to everyone else. That isn't something that should be ignored. That's really good, above what Class B is providing on its own.


Simple, because jobs that provide support abilities should not also get the ability to do top damage.
This means that "selfish" jobs have no purpose in existing within the game's design. Ergo, no purpose in being played, ergo, might as well not exist.
This was the literal state of the game prior to the 6.08 patch.
RPR was outperforming every DPS class except for Monk within raids.

By your reasoning, this was perfectly acceptable. It was making use of its own buffs just as effectively as the selfish classes who had no buffing capability.
That isn't balanced, and its pretty harmful. It means SAM/BLM had no place whatsoever in any composition, because you would just put more RPR in.
There was absolutely no benefit to having a SAM/BLM in the comp, and if anything, players who enjoyed those jobs had no return for their playstyle.

A game that is balanced does not always mean fair.
Not everyone gets the same size of cake, but that's okay because not everyone's cake slice has the same toppings.

If you want to use real data then, consider that I play dancer, and it's common knowledge that Samurai contribute more than 300 through partner buffs than Reaper. They already had the highest personal damage before 6.08 and were best partner and filled the role they were meant to. That 300 dps isn't reflected on a certain website due to their metric removing single target buffs, but the fact that they have that 300+ damage edge over the next highest remains. Now they are doing more than Reaper not even counting those single target buffs and I see Samurai wanting other jobs to be even worse off. Not to mention the endless cries for nerfs which go completely against the design philosphy of the game. These misunderstandings lead this game's community to behave badly towards other jobs which also goes against the design philosphy of the game. I don't see it stopping any time soon unless certain jobs are also given the utility they feel works against them.

[Leiron]

If you want to use real data then, consider that I play dancer, and it's common knowledge that Samurai contribute more than 300 through partner buffs than Reaper. They already had the highest personal damage before 6.08 and were best partner and filled the role they were meant to. That 300 dps isn't reflected on a certain website due to their metric removing single target buffs, but the fact that they have that 300+ damage edge over the next highest remains. Now they are doing more than Reaper not even counting those single target buffs and I see Samurai wanting other jobs to be even worse off. Not to mention the endless cries for nerfs which go completely against the design philosphy of the game. These misunderstandings lead this game's community to behave badly towards other jobs which also goes against the design philosphy of the game. I don't see it stopping any time soon unless certain jobs are also given the utility they feel works against them.

To be fair, the next highest provides utility, which they do not, and it is within less than 1% of each other.
BLM is the only "selfish" DPS class that is performing above the others significantly, and those two provide raid wide buffs.
IMO, like I said SAM should get a buff.
,
I don't believe any of the other classes should get a nerf outside maybe Monk because its above everyone else by a rather large amount while providing its own raid wide buff.
I can see SMN, DNC, and MCH getting buffs.
I just don't think they should be very competitive with the selfish DPS.